The Blue Eye Map of Europe
Published February 26, 2008 Beauty , Europe , History , Unusual , anthropology 146 CommentsTags: Blonde, Blue Eyes, Europe, Genetics, Light eyes, light hair
Tags: Blonde, Blue Eyes, Europe, Genetics, Light eyes, light hair
that map is gargage..the Italians are much more blue eyed than Spaniards and Greeks ..check the Map of Coon..
Coon has been totally discredited. Using anything Coon put together is ridiculous.
this map is a little bit different …
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immagine:Light_eyes_map.jpg
this map is a little bit different…Renato Biasutti..
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immagine:Light_eyes_map.jpg
Yea because you have been all over Spain…what a moron…
well look a this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Lighteyesmap3.jpg
Oh please give me a break.The italians are all dark with dark eyes ,hairy and an olive complexion.The puerto ricans that live in my area are much lighter than the italians who lives nearby.
Only someone who’s never been to Italy would say such a thing:
“The italians are all dark with dark eyes ,hairy and an olive complexion.The puerto ricans that live in my area are much lighter than the italians who lives nearby”
I’m not saying italians are like scandinavians but that map is totally WRONG.Just take a look to turkey to realize it.Would someone explain me why , if turkey is SOOO blue eyed, the nearby lands beyond the isthmus (Bulgaria, Romania) are SOOO dark? A pool of dark genes, maybe? Yeah and everybody knows about super blond north-western conrer of africa… I wouldn’t even let the one who did this map give me information on the road to follow…
History!
Goths in North Italy around the 3rd century and Germans later, Vandals in North Africa, the crusaders around Byzanz ( today Istambul) and everybody leaving behind their genes…
I´ve lived in Italy and Spain and I can assure that Spaniards are lighter in complexion, and more blue eyed. In regards to France I beleive the map is correct.
@nordicfrench
I have been in France,and lot of french had dark hair dark eyes,more than french want us to believe.
As for the spaniards,no way they are lighter and more blue eyed than Italians.
I’ve been there and only in a part of north Spain there are lot of blue eyed.
To finish with,the map is false as hell…a part of north Africa with a percentage of blue eyed people as Galles?
Give me a fucking break….
LOL
Portuguese more blue eyed than Galles and Italy…
LOL
have you ever seen the portuguese?????
Sir, you have no clued. Have you ever travelled to Portugal. Have you ever seen NATIVE ORIGIN Portuguese. How ignorant can you possibly be?
To blueeyeditalian, im Portuguese and i have green eyes and light brown/redish hair. My mom is also Portuguese, and she has blue eyes and blonde hair (natural).
So don’t generalize. Ok?
Have you ever been to Portugal? You will surprised at how many fair, light haired, light eyed people there are, particularly in the north and central north. Portugal’s heritage is mainly Celtic, like Spain. In some ways it is even more Celtic than its good neighbor. So many ignorant people around…
I think the map has some inaccuracies in the southern regions.
This map was copied from Eupedia.com. Here is the source page : http://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_of_europe.shtml#eye_colour
The Eupedia Team
@blueyeitalian.
I am Italian and Ihave been all over those places. I can tell the map is almost right, we italians are the darkest people in Europe if you exceptuate some part of north Italy where due to a mix with foreign nationalities during the time, there is some cluster of lighter people. But as a rule even the true pure northern italians are pretty dark. As far as North Africa, the map refers to the berber population, do you know Zidane? He is one of them, check the color of his eyes out.
Stop being ashame of our heritage we are MEDITERRANEANS let’s be proud of it.
Italians do not exist as a unit race.
There are northern italians and southern italians. The first one are similar to central french,alpine mixed with dinarics.Intermediate in eyes and brown in hair on average, even though there are parts in the alps where light eyes are commoner than dark ones.
Southerners are like portuguese people in height (the smallest in europe with maltese)and darker in hair and eyes than spaniards.
Eric
italians do not exist as a one race.There are 2 races: northern and southern, the first one are similar to central frenc, the second to portuguese
aronne
Basically, it is pointless arguing about who is darker Spaniards, Italians, Portuguese or Greeks. I can’t tell who is the darkest or lighest because it depends. My guess would be that Greeks are the darkest, while Northern Italians are the lighest of the Southern Europeans. They are all Southern Europeans with similar hair, eye and skin color distributions. All these groups are slightly darker, on average, than Northern Europeans.
Haha…if Puerto Ricans are lighter than Italians check the Puerto Rican demographic…80 percent of respondants stated they were white of Spanish, German and Corsican (Italian) descent…what a horrible comparison.
There is no such thing the Mediterranean race. Noridicsts made that up but go ahead believe, they might just tell u your half whatever! Northern and southern Italians are not racially different…there are only three races in the world…and they are a predominantly Roman people from Aosta to Sicilia.
The Italians look similar to southern and central French and the northern Spanish. Sicilians look like Greeks, and Portuguese. Greeks and Portuguese are by far the darkest in Europe (not that that really matters) and I have met some Italians who look Swiss, German etc.
Incorrect. Travel to Portugal and see for yourself. Don’t post trash.
The majority of Europeans descendents in Brazil comes from Italy, Portugal and Spain. The thing is that they all are darkers than other europeans. Northern italians like to distinguish theirselves of the southerns but Italy as a whole is darker. Even the italians who have light hair and eyes are not as light as the germans in terms of hair and eye color. Germans(the originals) and other nordics have pure light colors, the italians that are a bit lighter than the average in their country are of mixed descent with some other european nation, that’s why they are minority.
The original “italians” are the etrusks and the latini, is well know that the first ones are light in skin, have thin facial lines and have brown(dark and light) eyes and hair. Their ancient pictures proves it, although in a very few images there are blond people, but of dyed hair which was common in ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome. The eyebrows and the eyes are dark which confirms that assumption.
Now about the latini, well this is the special debate cause we have been exposed to Nazi lies since a long ago. They want to say that the patricians were nordic and the rest of the italics were darker. Realistically speaking the latini were very close ethnically to the etrusks. They were not blond neither light eyed. There are misunderstoods of the ancient latin terms. Caesii doesn’t mean blue eyed, some people based on this to say that most ancient roman emperors were blue-eyed. Julius Caesar himself related the word the elephant, nothing to colors and none dictionary will tell you caesii is blue, in the opposity, there are similar words that mean sightless, probably the state of the eye one’s get when older. The eye turns blue but that’s not ethnical, many africans also develop blueish eyes in certain age.
Julius Caesar for example is descrived buy Suetonius as having “black eyes” (“nigris oculi” in latin) the word nigris left no doubt about the color. In the ancient Bust of Brutus from 4 Century BC, his eyes are dark brown with original color. The busts of other romans doesn’t have eye color.
To finnish, all original ancient paintings in Pompeii reveals the brown/orange color of the eyes of the ancient romans, just like Monalisa’s, the famoust italian face in the world. Lisa Gherardini was from a aristhocratic family from the north of Italy, her appereance is typically italian, thin facial lines, light skin but not albino like the nordics; brown hair and orange eyes.
Sorry for some linguistical mistakes in the previous post, I did it in a hurry without reading it.
Continuing, about the Spaniards and the Portugueses, they have Moor and Berber mix in the south, but in the north they are lighter than italians. It’s due to their Keltic or Celtic(as your prefer) heritage, which is close to the french; the latini although had linguistic similarities with this Keltics, can’t be consideraded to belong to the same ethnicy. The called Nordic Keltics were lighter than the latini. Caesar for example admired the Gauls(french people) for their blondism, but got even more impressed with the germanic people, as the italici calls them. Their colours were pure, Tacitus said in his book about the germans that, “he agrees with that ones that claims the germans formed an unmixed people, having their physical characteristics pure and homogeneous”, The latini also had their pure colours, the eyes were/are the same colour of the wine, as described in the ancient time, and the hair slightly light brown.
Romans as Greeks and Egyptians had blond ideals of beauty so they dyed their hair blond or red. The Greeks mythological heroes were blond idealized, although it’s getting clearer that Greeks weren’t the nordic people some wants make the world believe.
The actual Greeks are dark. In the internet is very common to see discussion between Greeks and Macedonians about Greeks ethnicy. The Macedonias argues that they are majorly blonds, blue-eyeds and that the Greeks are turkishs like, not pure as “would have been the ancient Greeks”, but recently was verified ethnicy continuity among ancient and modern Greeks, so the classical Greek(or the Hellenic people as they prefer) weren’t nordic cause the actual greeks are really darker than the rest of Europe.
To the people that claims north italians are much different from south ones, Virgil(ancient roman poet) was described as dark, and he was from the north. Lisa Gherardini, Rafaello Sanzio, Michelangelo Buonarotti, Durante (Dante) Alighieri, Leonardo DaVinci were all north italians and they were not blond. Luciano Pavarotti who died recently was from Modena, which as far as I remember is in the very north of Italy. He had black eyes and hair and not so light skin.
Watch out Italians, I see in sites which are devoted to “the white race” the increase of discrimination against yourselves. They create a fantasy that the patricians were nordic and the actual Italy is made of slaves descents from the east and north africa, when in reality italians are latin/etruscan majorly with a few people a bit more close to the nordics due to a geographical proximity with other European nations and eventual mixture througout history.
The Spanians, in the other hand, are changing that image made of them through latin american people with spanish names that imigrated to US. The Brits for example are facing another side of Spanish ethicny, the Asturians and the Galegos. In the Premiere league: Fernando Torres, Reina, Almunia, Riera, Xabi Alonso and the coach Rafael Benites, are all very light and with clear Celtic heritage. Formula 1 which is very popular have the Asturian Alonso who have blue eyes and light brown hair, Pedro De la Rosa, who is dark eyed and haired but with European facial lines, and the future star Jaime Alguersuari who is very light skinned and blue eyed. Also the Spanish president, Zabatero, has blue eyes, while the italians Romano Prodi and Silvio Berlusconi looks like Sicilians.
Lastest Italian drivers also are representants of the latini/etruscan feature. Trulli, Fisichella, Liuzzi, Bruni, Pantano, Tocaccello are all dark eyed and haired but light skinned and with European characteristics. People like Daniele de Rossi, Ambrosini and etc are rarity in Italy but don’t let some nordic racists makes you think you are inferior. Einstein was the arabic look who achieved much more than any nordic german in his time.
Those who needs to think that they belong to some better race are, actually, psychological week, a naive childish thinking.
(As a note: I’m not a pro-nordic despite having german heritage which is common in the south of Brazil)
WTF???
lol, this map is all wrong!
So the Turks have more blue eyes than Italians? (Im not Italian, by the way…)
Im Portuguese, from (southern europe) altough i don’t have blue eyes, my mom has, and she’s Portuguese aswell .
Just because someone is from a certain place, doesn’t mean that they have to be a certein way.
Thera are blue eyed, blondes in Mexico, Argentina, South Africa, India, etc…
brazilian,you likes a teacher.first of all i know all areas of spain and in the north(asturias galicia etc )are more dark hair than in shoutern areas like malaga or cadiz in andalucia because 4OO years ago moors and jews was go out spain and repobled with people fron centroeuropeo.the mith of north spain are lighter than shout is completely false.
second i know all tipes of europeans because i lived 3 years in mallorca.
third i was working in security in airport zragoza and for me is imposible distinguised between italian and spaniard people.the fly were zaragoza-roma and zaragoza- milan and the passengers was mixed.
on the other hand is easy distinguised spaniard against holland,german or english people.
i was working in kosovo(part of srbia with albanian people).when i go back to spain in asturias that is where i live now spaniard people in asturias like me more darker hair than kosovo people.
generally in asturias people are not taller and darker hair.sorry for my bad english.
What a stupid map? ITS A MAP OF LIGHT EYES, LIGHT MEAN (BLUE, GRAY AND GREEN)!
I don’t agree with that map as it’s saying people in Turkey have the same amount of blue eyes as people in the south of England, when most people in Turkey have dark eyes and blue eyes are the most common colour in England. I can tell the difference between a native of Britain and a native of Turkey from how dark they are.
The map seems generally accurate. However, I would take exception with the percentages for Greece; should be more in the 1-19% range, overall. Greece has less than 50% European Y haplogroups and, for the most part, bear physical traits that are closer to Arabs than to Europeans.
Also, some parts of northwest Spain and northern Portugal may actually have populations with more than 49% blue eyes, according to what I have seen during my visits to the region. This is likely the result of many hundreds of Celtic and Germanic domination in central-to-northwest Iberia. The Vikings also established small settlements there, the most well-known being the city of Po’voa de Verzim, just south of Porto, where the people are essentially Norman.
Luciano:
Do you have problems seing?
Correction: “hundreds of [years] of Celtic…”
Strange map. Even in Wales most people are light-eyed, and defintely in South-West England. I live in Denmark where defintely more than 80 per percent of people are light-eyed. The Italians are certainly more light-eyed than the Spanish.
anthropologique:
why? Could you explain me better, please?
Schism, your statement that italians are more light-eyed than the Spaniards is based on what? In certain regions of Spain and Portugal there are darker features due to Moor invasion but the previous population were Celtic and Visigoth, which prevails in northern areas. The light-eyed people in Italy are due to the Lombards settlements and they are big minority even in the north. The “original” population of Italy: the etruscans and latini is quite light skinned but having brown eyes and hair. Julius Caesar who descent directly from the founders of Rome had light skin and black eyes, Brutus had brown eyes as the people in Pompeii and Herculum wall paintings from 2000 years ago.
Probably the italians are more light skinned, cause not only the Lombards are, but in north Iberia the light-eyes percent should be greater than Italy’s.
By the way, Schism, could you tell your nationality?
to artur:
please read my post january 9 about spaniards and italians.
i dont agree about in north spain more blue eyes than shout.
i live now in asturias but i live before in basque country,i know galicia and gallegos,i lived several years in mallorca and i lived months in parts of andalucia and other parts of spain.in algeciras area(cadiz)seven months and i see more blue eyes in the south than north.
this fact have explanatioon too largue but if you want i will tell you.
studies show in the south,east and northeast of spain not traces of northafricaan genetics and few genetics from jews.
on the other hand in west and northwest spain traces of jews are between 10 or 15 per cent and traces of northafricaans are between 5 to 10 per cent
Luciano, get a life already…OIIIII
Viva Lithuania!Viva Lithuania!Viva Lithuania!Viva Lithuania!Still bigest pool of white genes in Mid_East Europe!Italians are half negroes.
Lets change the compilation of the groups and from 0-20% 21%-49% etc make them 0-15% 16-25% 26%-35%
Then the results could be like that Spaniards,Greeks,South Italians belong to 16%-25% group and Northen Italians to 26%-35%.
You became instantly whiter than the other southern groups.
So what????
Palemonas, you are the second that say something like that about italians!
hyy in june 28, said something similar.
I also think that the percentual rate is inadequate for this map. Probably italians are close to 20%, let’s suppose 18%, and spaniards and portugueses are about 21% or 22%. So the percentual division can be misleading.
Noticed now, it seems strange to me that Greeks have more than 20% of blue eyes, this is probably wrong. They may be the most “dark” of Europe.
I’m not italian so I don’t study italian history deeply, COULD SOME ITALIAN EXPLAIN WHY ITALIANS ARE LIGHT IN COMPLEXION BUT DARK IN EYES AND HAIR?(don’t know if that is said in italians schools)
The Italians are certainly more light-eyed than the Spanish.
It’s saying people in Turkey have the same amount of blue eyes as people in the south of England,it is nonsense.proportion of blue eyes in turkey as 15%
to arsen korsicova:
about what base you to say the italians are more light-eyed than spain?could you explain me.
could you see my post of date 9 january.i explain that becouse i know well spaniards,italians and europeans in general.
FOR GREECE, BEING A GREEK UP TO 20% IS FAIRLY ACCURATE.
ARABS/MOORS.BLACKS CONQUERED SPAIN/SOUTH FRANCE…. FOR 800 YEARS AND SICILY FOR 300 YEARS. BYZANTINES GREEKS LOST NORTH AFRICA AND PARTS OF ANATOLIA BUT NEVER FELL TO BLACKS/ MOOORS
CRETE AND CYPRES OFF THE COAST OF ISRAEL AND TURKEY DID FALL UNDER SOME ARAB RULE.
TURKS (WHO WERE CONQUERED BY ARABS AND CONVERTED TO ISLAM BY THE SWORD) THEN SPREAD INTO ANATOLIA AND BALKANS AND PARTS OF GREECE IN THE MID TO LATE 15THCENTURY.. THEY WERE RATHER KILLED OFF IN THE LATE 18 CENTURY AND REMOVED FROM GREEK MAINLAND. KEEP IN MIND THAT GREEKS ALSO INVADED TURKEY IN 1918 AND AFTER SLAUGHTERING INNOCENT TURKS, TURKS TURNED THE TIDE AND KICKED OUT ANATOLIAN GREEKS…WHO LIVED IN TURKEY. THESE ARE THE DARK GREEKS……WHO LIVED UNDER TURKISH OCCUPATION SINCE 14 CENTURY…..POOR BASTARDS.
MY FAMILY IS 40% BLUE EYED AND WHITE AND OTHERS HAVE SLIGHTLY DARKER MEDITERREANEAN FEATURES. WE ARE 100% GREEK BLOOD.
WE ARE PURE GREEK FROM LACONIA….PELOPONNESE.
ITS FUNNY, US WHITE GREEKS WE ALWAYS CALL DARKER GREEKS…TURKS.
HEY WE ARE ALL HUMAN AND DO LOOK EUROPEAN NO MATTER WHAT !!!!!!
BE IT ITALIAN, CROAT, HUNGARIAN, GREEK, GERMANS, SPANISH !!!!
VIVE EURO PEOPLES !
There are practically no Arab haplogroups in Iberia (check the E.U.statistics). NATIVE ORIGIN Berber markers are found in Iberia, yes…but many native origin Berbers were / are blond and light eyed.
well im from Spain and i can say that a lot of andalusians have blue eyes,is totally false that they look like morrocans,some of them are mixed with arabs and gypsies but the majority look european some examples are:Los Morancos,Marisol,Manu Carrasco,Esther OT,Virginia OT,Manu Tenorio,Pastora Soler,Diego Capel,Jaime Cantizano etc.I thing that greeks and portuguese are the darkest of Europe.
Yea, If you guys did not know the galician people have celtic heritage, so the northwestern part of spain should be lighter. And the basques of spain are also mixed with irish and scottish people. I have blue eyes and my mother does too and she’s cuban of galician descent, and my dad has brown eyes and his dad has blue eyes and is cuban of galician descent, go to cuba, you will find alot of blue-eyed people that are of galician and basques descent. italians have blue eyes too you know, some are dark and alot have blue eyes, frank sinatra for example, ol blue eyes.
Espanol, the portugueses are almost the same as the spanishs. To Greek guy, I have to say that no way 20% of Greeks have blue eyes. Greece was darker even before turkish mix, Aristottle said that the Greeks were the not as dark as the africans and not as light as the nordics. Also the artwork of ancient greek reveals their mediterranean features, some even dyed their hair blond or red cause they were not naturally like that. The same for the italians who are a bit lighter than the Greeks due to contact with nothern europeans.
Artur i think portuguese and spanish are some diferences.Also in Spain are some diferences for example catalonians have a lot of frank influences the name of Cataluña came from the word gotholandia that means land of goths.
VERY few differences between Spaniards and Portuguese. Just the Basques and ,to a slight extent, the Catalans and Valencianos. More than two thirds of the Portuguese correlate or mach genetically with other Celtic countries.
Galicians, Northern Portuguese and some Central Portuguese are of the same stock.
Dear friends – and especially brazilian:
I don’t think we will ever settle these problems. We will never demonstrate that “Italians are lighter than Spaniards” or “Spaniards are lighter than Italians and Greeks” or things like that, because these are GENERALIZATIONS. For instance, it is USELESS to mention, like Brazilian does, examples of Italian people who are dark-eyed and dark-haired, because then another person could mention examples of Italian people who are light-eyed.
You mentioned sport? Well, there are De Rossi and Ambrosini, but also Francesco Totti, Luca Toni, Paolo Maldini… or the Bergamasco brothers in rugby (who are so white that they are at high risk of melanoma – I study medicine):
http://www.rivistamadre.it/pagina_articolo.asp?IDX=68IDRX=12
Politicians? You named some who are dark-eyed, but I will name some who are light-eyed: Gianni Cuperlo, Francesco Storace, Franco Giordano (google them).
The same applies to the historic reasons. You, Brazilian, show a wonderful historical culture: but how comes you don’t mention that we had Celts (many of them) in Italy as well; that it was not only the Longbeards who came to Italy, but also the Goths and other northern people; that Veneto (Norht-East Italy; I am Italian and 90% of the Venetians I know have blue eyes) that in the Middle Ages the Normans (of the Hauteville family, cousins of William the Conqueror’s family, in those same years)invaded Southern Italy? The famous Italian writer Giovanni Verga was Sicilian and mentioned in his works that some Sicilians are blue-eyed and blond-haired and are probably the descendants of the Normans.
So, bottom line: it is USELESS to prove a point by showing single examples, single instances, or empiric evidence from personal experience. You cannot generalise. The only thing we can do is propose percentages. AND even percentages are inaccurate, because in a certain area there may be cities with more blonde/blue-eyed people than other ones.
Let’s settle on that: there are light-eyed people in both Spain and Italy. Exact percentages may vary depending on area or depending on statistical methods, but we are not interested in white differences (what difference does it make if it is 70% or 60% in Northern Spain and 40% or 20% in Southern Spain? What difference does it make if it is 15% in Southern Italy, where I come from, BUT 60% in some cities of Southern Italy?). The point is still there: less light-eyed than Scandinavia, but they are still there.
Ciao a tutti,
Luca
Luca,
you are the only one to understand these things. Congratulations.
I’m not italian but I lived there for many years, summarizing I can say as follows:
height:1)greeks and northern italians the tallest.
2)spaniards (few differencies between north/south)
3)portuguese and southern italians
eyes: 1)northern italians the lightest
2)greeks
3)iberians (north west the lightest)-south italian
Hair: 1)northern italians
2)spaniards
3)all the others
skin: 1)northern italians
2)all the others
Northern italians had celts, romans and germanic tribes.
All the others had less germanic blood.
Racially no european country has more differencies between north and south than Italy.
Spain is by far more homogeneous than the others.
Greece and portugal are in the middle between italy and spain.
Palamonas you are an idiot.
Eric
Rediculous…LOL.
i agree with you luca too.
eric i dont understand nothing about you mean in yours numbers.
Simply,
I tried to classified the people based on some items such as height,hair and eyes colour from the tallest/lightest to the shortest/darkest.
Is it so difficult to understand?
Eric
So here is my case:
i’m blue-gray eyed, dark straight hair and very fair skin. I’m a catalan, and everyone thinks that because of being from there, i should be darker.
Yesterday in a lunch here in Germany where I live, my german friends compared their skin to mine, and I was paler than them. They where surprised, and instead of thinking that i was very pale, they thought they were tanned… funny, uh?
People tend to think that southern european are dark, but it’s not necesarilly right.
I’ve lived all around spain and in italy as well, been to Portugal, not to Greece (but seen lots!) and I must say that there as i’ve seen, there is one thing true:
there are dark and light people in all these countries.
I agree with a lot of the people here that in portugal and greece people might be lighter, but still, of course, there are lots of people who are fair in eyes and skin. Of course, not like in northen countries.
In the north of Italy, whatever some people say, there are lots of fair-eyed blonde people, more women than men, dont know why! Way more than wherever i’ve seen in any of these other countries.
Obviously, as you get to the south of italy, people get darker. As in Spain, Portugal or in general, where there is more sun, people are darker. Of course, in these countries we have had lots of moroon influences, but let’s be fair (haha), mediterraneans, are darker than those northen barbarians!! ;P
Anyways, we are all european, so we are mostly fair skinned until there is sun! then we get darker. Put a southern italian in the north of germany without sun for a couple of years and this person will become paler than you can imagine!
I’ve read here that there are lots of blonde andalusians, and it’s absolutely true! There are focuses of very fair people all around spain, but curiously, not so popular where celtic influences like Galicia. Not all celtics are so fair, lots have dark eyes and dark hair! can tell because my partner is from there!
Also say, that the mediterranean lands are the doors to the rest of Europe, so there have been people crossing and staying as well, or just leaving there genes! in all these countries.
If you are fair, be happy, darker will like you! If you are dark, be happy, fairer will like you!
“Oh please give me a break.The italians are all dark with dark eyes ,hairy and an olive complexion.The puerto ricans that live in my area are much lighter than the italians who lives nearby.”
the usual troll that brainwashed by american media say italians are all dark haired dark eyed and olive in complexion…lol
Maybe those who lives in Porto Rico have only a grandad who was italian and they state they are italian….I knew a portorican who had an italian father and a black mom,so he was a mulatto and he said he was italian cause he thought it was cool….
To finish…get your fact right…spaniards are darker than italians,only a little stripe in the north have a bit more paler than the rest of Spain.800 years of moors left a great mark in them.
“@blueyeitalian.
I am Italian and Ihave been all over those places. I can tell the map is almost right, we italians are the darkest people in Europe if you exceptuate some part of north Italy where due to a mix with foreign nationalities during the time, there is some cluster of lighter people. But as a rule even the true pure northern italians are pretty dark. As far as North Africa, the map refers to the berber population, do you know Zidane? He is one of them, check the color of his eyes out.
Stop being ashame of our heritage we are MEDITERRANEANS let’s be proud of it.”
LOL
then what are the spaniards if not mediterramnean you moron?and the algerians???more blue eyed than italians???
Why do you sounds like a troll who probably is not even italian???
“Bute as a rule north italians are pretty dark???”
Are you stupid or what?First you stated they are mixed with nordics than you say they are dark???
Go to Veneto,Piedmont and Tuscany you idiot,than you can talk…
LOL
Anyway an idiot like you that say northafricans are lighter than italians should only go to put is ass in a latrine.
to the brasilian guy…
Well you have a great knowledge of history but not in genetic.
You took only dark haired italians as example,but you left dark spaniards as they were a little percentage in Spain.
I have been in Spain,and i have never thought i was in Scandinavia when i was there.
Meanwhile in some parts of north Italy you could think to be in Swiss or Austria.This doesn’t mean that all italians are like scandinavians,but not even as the turks or northafricans.
As for the romans…and the other you stated….
Augustus was blonde,Flavius too….
Leonardo da Vinci you stated he was dark…lol
Da Vinci was red with blue eyes,as well as Galileo..Dante Alighieri had dark hair and blue eyes,the prince Colonna was blonde…
then next time try to put real facts…..
CHANGE THIS STUPID TITLE! IT’S NOT A MAP OF BLUE EYES BUT OF LIGHT EYES (GRAY, BLUE, GREEN AND ALSO MIXED OF THIS COLOUR). Physical anthropology is my hobby, I know this map, it’s a map of light eyes (gray, blue, green), not only blue. I’ve never seen map of only blue eyed population (there are maps of light eyed) because it’s not important to see concentration of only blue eyed people in anthopology. Why? Because light eyes (gray, blue and green) are very similar and ussually gray eyes are little more light than blue and green are ussually little more dark than blue and for example green-gray eye is lighter than many shades of blue. (clasification of light, dark etc. is by the concentration of melanine, it’s not- ‘how we see it’). There is a special Martin-Schultz scale of eye’s colour.
I noticed that on the other blogs people copied your map and wrote ‘map of blue eyed’ or you copied it from source with wrong title, whatever- it’s a map of light eyes not blue eyes.
From antother hand I think that this map of light eyes insn’t correct.
argues champion the moors in spain were few n we kicked them out plus the most thorough conquest was spain’s thats why many people in italy are darker than in spain n in spain most kids have light hair then it gets darker tho.Portugal may be on the iberian peninsula but they brought in balck slaves tats why they are the europeans with mor non white blood n thats why people cant say spaniards n portuguese are the same.We cant say italians are lighter than spaniards or viceversa.O n not all spaniards are mediterraneans the basques(like me)galicians etc arent in the med sea.
compare fernando torres with gatusso,buffon etc u who is lighter? see wat i mean?
reconquest* sorry
Luca and Eric – If you get on this website again maybe you could help me, because I found your comments the most helpful, altho, I did appreciate some of the others. I’m from the USA (many generations), mostly French-Canadian ancestry (also going back several hundred years), and throw in a little Irish, German, and Native American. I was just curious about French ethnicity and if European French tend to be darker in the south of France as Italians do – in general – I get your point about exceptions and percentages. I have read a little about the Normans,Celtics, Gauls, Franks, everyone knows about the ancient Latin & Greek people, but I had never heard about Etrusks, and have heard about the Moors and Moroccons giving a lot of Europeans darker coloring. I know French can have a range of eye/hair color and complexions, but I generally think of them as being darker, as many of the people in my area are who have French Canadian ancestry. Just curious. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
hi , i’m an algerian , and i agree with the map concerning the far western part of Algeria , it is true that the people of that area (Tlemcen area, to be precise) have a higher percentage of light eyes than the other algerians , they are certainly more than 20% to have light eyes , there are also the kabyle people (to whom Zidane belongs) as well as the other people of the north-eastern coast who have a high rate of green or blue eyes and i’m a bit surprised they are not shown on the map , although i suppose the light eyes rate concerning them could be a bit less than 20% .
i live in Europe for some time and i know that the italians are the only european people who have remained pure mediterraneids , the other southern europeans have been heavily mixed with germanics during the germanic invasions of the 5th century that caused the fall of the roman empire . and concerning the Slavic people of Croatia and Bosnia , they are originally from north-eastern Europe and they emigrated southward during the early middle-ages, it explains the high rate of light eyes among them .
whats weird is that southern poland has the same amount of light eyes as greece. That seems a little mest up
whats weird is that southern poland has the same amount of light eyes as greece and turkey. That seems a little mest up
I agree with what Luca said with respect to Italians. There is tremendous variation among Italians and HARDLY all of them are dark, even in the southernmost regions of Sicily and Calabria (which were ruled by Normans during the Middle Ages and also received a notable influx of Northern Italians who helped to Latinize these areas which had previously been under Byzantine Greek or Muslim Arab control).
I rather tend to agree with those who would say that the map is somewhat incorrect with respect to the percentage of light eye colors in Italy. It’s at least as high as the other southern European countries. I’d actually stay that probably anywhere between 1/2 and 1/3 or so of all the Italians I’ve ever known have blue/green/light mixed eyes, the rest having darker hazel or various shades of brown (and they were from all regions of Italy).
As for hair color, dark brown is the most common, not jet black like some presume. Lighter colors are found in higher frequencies in some northern regious, whereas black hair is perhaps more common in Sicily or Calabria, but dark brown is predominant everywhere.
Sicily probably has the most physical diversity of all the Italian regions because it’s been conquered and settled by a multitude of different groups from all over Europe and the Mediterranean. A stroll through Palermo will verify this. You see folks who look northern European (Norman/French ancestry most likely), people with classically Greek looks, others with typical Roman profiles, and still others who look Arab/Middle Eastern (i.e. black curly hair, olive skin, Semitic features, etc.). Of course, many Sicilians also look to be a mix of two or more of the above groups.
^Oops, I meant to say between 1/4 and 1/3 of all the Italians I’ve known have had blue/green/light mixed eyes.
“i live in Europe for some time and i know that the italians are the only european people who have remained pure mediterraneids , the other southern europeans have been heavily mixed with germanics during the germanic invasions of the 5th century that caused the fall of the roman empire . and concerning the Slavic people of Croatia and Bosnia , they are originally from north-eastern Europe and they emigrated southward during the early middle-ages, it explains the high rate of light eyes among them.”
Are you serious? Sorry but I think you have your facts mixed up. Even outdated anthropologists like Carletoon Coon felt that the Italians were the least “Mediterranid” of all southern Europeans. Many Italians could easily pass for central Europeans or Frenchmen, and not even just the northerners.
Furthermore, with respect to Germanic invasions, Italy was the country in southern Europe that was the most heavily affected. Sure you had Visigoths in Spain, but Italy was invaded and settled extensively by Lombards (who gave their name to the region of Lombardy or Lombardia in Italian), Ostrogoths, and other tribes. Even ancient Rome itself saw quite a few Germanic slaves, some of whom were later freed and absorbed into the population. In medieval times southern Italy also saw a period of Norman occupation. Normans were themselves a mixture of French and Viking origins (the French part itself largely Frankish Germanic as it was northern French).
Greece was actually the country in southern Europe that was least affected by Germanic invasions, which is probably because of its extreme southeastern location in Europe. Greeks from my experience are also the most prevailingly brunet of all Europeans. The ancient Greeks were primarily dark, not fair as some Nordicists and other delusional folks have claimed, and it’s arguable that the Turks may have contributed to the modern Greek gene pool. Furthermore, it’s also true that Slavs and Albanians contributed to modern Greek ancestry as well, therefore lighter-haired lighter-eyed Greeks likely trace some ancestry to these groups, not Germanic peoples.
Thanks Ana.
Your description seems the most accurate and the less partial.
I don’t know why many italians as well tend to state we are the darkest in Europe.
I mean i don’t care if we really were the darkest,but it is not true at all.
As you said Italy probably got more german invasion than anybody else in Europe.
From Tuscany to the northen border for instance,there are by far a largest number of blue eyed people than the map shown.
Unfortunately Hollywood tends to show italian people very dark,and people really believe in this.
I should remember people and especially the southern italians here(who seems to be very glad that people all around the world see north italians as the southern ones….)that the Carla Bruni type or Cipollini,or Totti type is not uncommon like in the south Italy?
For the idiot saying portoricans are whiter than italians….
A friend of mine told me it’s cool for portoricans stating they are italians or half italians…..
Maybe that’s because you saw portoricans whiter than those fake italians…
Last thing for the algerian guy.
what you forgot to write(even if you were wrong about the invasion in Italy,cause as i said Italy got more german invasions than anybody else)is that mediterranean type is as well an indoeuropean type which means that there were blonde haired,blue eyed people as well…)
Anyway this map doesn’t show the high percentage of blonde blue eyed in the zone of Benevento and Apulia,two zones that for their high number of nordic types,interested scholars too.
@Artur
“Julius Caesar who descent directly from the founders of Rome had light skin and black eyes, Brutus had brown eyes as the people in Pompeii and Herculum wall paintings from 2000 years ago.”
Latins were an indoeuropean people then their colour came in several shades.You can’t classify latins as dark hair light skin only.Pompei as for Hercolan and etruscan paintings shown also blonde haired blue eyed.
@Brazilian
Someoine said you have a great knowledge in history but i must correct him.
You have not a great knowledge.
Before the romans,north Italy was almost entirely settled by celts.
From Piedmont to Marche.
The most ancient celt inscription is been found in Italy.
The “stele of Novilara”..
Please guys before talking about others’ history try to inform yourselves.
To the lithuanian guy\guy….italian are half negroes?
Try to explain me the nice slanted eyes of most of the lithuanian whites please….
Maybe Gengis Khan and his hord?
@Soirceness:
As you and I both know, plenty of people have misconceptions about how Italians are supposed to look. I happen to be an American of primarily Italian origin myself (ancestors from Sicily and Tuscany), and I’ve heard some very bizarre assertions a la “Sicilians are part black,” etc. There are people who also think that most Italians are physically indistinguishable from a typical mixed Latin American. Not there’s anything wrong with that, but it’s just a wildly inaccurate assertion.
BTW, LMAO at the guy who thinks that Puerto Ricans are whiter than Italians. Most Puerto Ricans have obvious sub-Saharan African and/or Native American admixture in addition to European. Although I’ve admittedly seen a few Italians who could pass for Middle Eastern or Latin American (possible remnant of the Moorish/Phoenician presence – think Nicholas Turturro), they’re not representative of the average Italian appearance. Besides, no population in the world is “pure.” Gene flow has bound the human race together since we came out of Africa.
@Lithuanian guy: I think you’d be surprised if you took a DNA test. You might uncover a few Central Asian ancestors on the family tree. A noticeable minority of Baltic, Hungarian, and Slavic Europeans have somewhat Asian-looking eyes and/or high cheekbones. Considering their location and contacts with peoples who came from further east (Huns, Avars, Bulgars, Cumans, Petchenegs, Mongols, etc.), it’s not at all far-fetched to say.
You couldn’t write a better comment Ana.
Your comments are always very accurate and precise.
I agree with you with people being completely brainwashed about italians’ roots.
I think the people stating about italians being indistinguishable from a mixed latin american are the same that mistake spaniards people from Spain with latinos-spanish from South America.
As you said there are also very few italians that could pass for middleasterner like Turturro,although his sister could easily pass for an irish.
I have seen many times italian brothers in which one brother was dark haired and the other blonde blue eyed.
For instance i have blue eyes and brown hair,my sister has blonde hair and hazel eyes.My relatives are mediterranean type but with the typical european feautures(like Colin Farrell or Sean Connery to make an example)
This mean that mediterranean type has got the blonde blue eyed genes in itself…
i would like to see two portorican relatives with afro or indio roots make blue eyed or blonde haired kids…lol
The lithuanian girl\guy…well,i hate Hitler,but when he was alive he didn’t hate and persecuted italians…he hated jews and slavic people who considered inferiors….
@Brazilian
well,your comment is almost false as your statements.
There is no such a thing like italians all dark haired dark eyed.
Central-north italians are all but dark haired dark eyed.
You shown that you have a partial view of Italy,and i could make the same typing many italians blue eyed and compare them with other dark europeans stating that italians are blonde and nordic type while other not.
If i took Ambrosini or De Rossi or Carla Bruni as example and i paragoned them with Orlando Bloom,Colin Farrell,or the spanish Raul what will you say?
That english,irish and spaniards are all dark?
I’m married with an italian from Bologna,and although i’ve been brainwashed by people that italians are all dark(and i like as well the mediterranean italians),i had quite the opposite impression when i came to Italy.There is a great ignorance about italians in the world.My husband is almost paler than me,but blue eyed and with dark hair.Of course in Poland you can find many blonde haired,but that doesn’t mean you are wither than a dark haired blue eyed pale skinned italian.Neither of a mediterranean italian though,otherwise you would state that Colin Farrel is not white too.
As for the map,i found it false as well..south Poland with the same amount of blue eyed than Turkye????
I come from south Poland…and i assure you that we have not such a low number of people with blue eyes.
@Spain the jewel of the mediterranean
…Compare De Rossi,Ambrosini,Totti,with Guiza or David Villa…
Still Gattuso has an european greek feature,but Guiza not at all..
As for the italian national team,in the last Eurocup they had 2 real blonde blue eyed nordic types(De Rossi-Ambrosini)and many with blue eyes or light eyes(Buffon,Cannavaro,Lippi,Oddo,Luca Toni,Barzagli,Del Piero).
Spain not.
With this i don’t mean spaniards are all dark though.
^Thanks for the reply. My Sicilian relatives (paternal side) vary from blond and blue-eyed to Arab-looking. This variation is very standard for Sicily given its history, but the average appearance (both in my family and throughout the island) is a look that is akin to Greeks or mainland Italians. My Tuscan great-grandmother was from Florence and she was blonde as a child and with blue eyes. Despite this, she looked very Italian as her facial features were quite “Roman.”
The average Italian really would not look that out of place in central/southern France or the Balkans. I can see some Sicilians or other individuals from the far south looking similar to Lebanese people or other lighter-skinned Middle Eastern/North African types, but in my experience that’s about it. It’s not unreasonable at all to claim that contemporary Italians have substantial continuity with the ancient Romans and other peoples living in Italy at the time (ancient Greeks, Gauls, and other Italic tribes).
Another thing that many people don’t realize is that Italians from different regions settled in different parts of the U.S. Where I live it’s really a mix of northerners, Abruzzesi, Calabresi, and Sicilians. In NYC/NJ it’s heavily Neapolitan/Sicilian, and in California it’s mostly northern Italians.
I even think that it’s interesting how Italians and darker Irish types can look similar, like Sean Connery or Colin Farrell as you stated. There is definitely a Mediterranean strain in the British Isles, and it’s more pronounced in the more heavily “Celtic” areas, particularly parts of Wales and Ireland. Certain genetic studies show similarities between those groups and Spaniards/Portuguese, which might explain it. Neolithic immigrants also reached the British Isles in smaller numbers, and Italians and Balkan populations are probably the Europeans having the greatest amount of Neolithic ancestry.
hi Soirceness, I don’t claim to be an expert in history but from my experience the italians are the darkest people of western Europe so i conclude that they have the less nordic germanic blood among europeans, and yes , i know about the lombardians and the people of northern italy in general , but this is only the northern alpin part of italy , the germanics did not settle or rule over all of italy like the Wisigoths ruled over spain, the Franks over France, or the anglo-saxons over Britain, so yes i think italians are (with germans) the most genetically preserved people from the antiquity Europe.
and about the mediterranean people as far as i know it was a wave of immigrants from the Near-East who around 7000BC settled southern europe and north-africa , these are our common ancestors , they invented agriculture in the fertile crescent then migrated aroung the mediterranean to spread it, these are the neolithic people and the generators of all mediterranean civilisations that grew later.
^The Visigoths in Spain were rather small in number despite establishing control over the entire territory. Also don’t forget that the ancient Gauls (Celts) of the Po Valley in northern Italy were largely fair. Normans and Lombards also made it to southern Italy as well.
Plus look at Greece and then southern Italy. That also doesn’t really add up because not only are southern Italians largely descended from Greeks, but Greece was less affected by Germanic invasions than any part of Italy was. Thus, they should be around the same percentage. This is also taking into account the Slavic invasions of Greece in addition to the Norman/Lombard incursions into southern Italy. Furthermore, both Greece and southern Italy were under the control of Turks and Moors respectively, but in regard to southern Italy, it was mostly just Sicily.
Hi awtul.
Nice to meet you.
Well to be real,the whole Italy had many invasions.
Firsts were the celts but we can’t call that an invasion cause they finally melted with romans creating a celtic\roman heritage from Piedmont-Lombardia-part of Tuscany to Emilia Romagna and Marche.Italians celts are shown to be one of the oldest too.
Then romans took many slaves essentially from celts and germans tribes.Once they replaced (in different times)with 300.000 germans a large part of northern central Italy cause many italics were died in some war and many were fighting all over Europe then there wasn’t anyone who could work in the fields.Many other germans were became romans after their service in the army.
After the fall of the roman empire,almost all the germanic tribes(Longobards,Goths,Eruli) settled in the whole Italy altough some portions of Italy were ruled by Byzantium who wanted to re-build the empire.The middle age saw first muslims in Sicily then Normans that settled in almost all the south.Normans in Europe only settled in southern Italy(from the bottom of Latium until Sicily),of course in Normandie and England.
Anyway following new studies,it has been found that Italy was “maybe” the owner of the famous old european R1b haplogroup,and not Iberia as previously thought;this because Spain lacks all the ancient subclades r1b1b2 present in Italy and it has got the most recent R-M153 and R-M167.R1b is the halogroup almost every european male owns and it has been shown as the haplogroup of the first autochtonous europeans.It was said that many irish and welsh are mediterranean types because of Iberians that settled there,but with this new studies,i started to think ancient italians moved to Europe and Great Britain.
These ancient europeans(Italians?)were all but nordic types.Nordic type is a phenotype that arrived from central Asia long time after.
I forgot that Italy was invaded by Franks too.
As Ana said Italy had many nordic invasions(nordic since nordics didn’t originate in Germany)that anyone else in Europe.
^Soirceness weren’t many parts of northern and north-central Italy somewhat depopulated during the Dark Ages due to the constant warfare, famine, and disease, only to be largely repopulated by the Lombards and other Germanic invaders? Naturally they assimilated into Roman culture, adopted Latin speech, and intermarried with the Gallo-Roman natives to produce northern Italians. If you were to look at many northern Italian surnames, there is an ultimate Germanic origin. Notable examples include Gandolfini, Maldini, Arduini, Pandolfo, Armani, and others.
Contrarily, many Sicilian surnames are of Greek or even Arabic origin. My own Sicilian surname is supposedly of Greek origin, and wouldn’t you know it, I’ve been told I look like a Greek many times, even by other Italians! Examples of Sicilian surnames said to be of Greek origin include Pappalardo, Geracia, Empedocle, and even a few that actually end in ’s’, much like most actual Greek surnames. Sicilian surnames of possible Arabic origin include Zappala, Alfano, and Ajala.
It’s because of the Arab occupation that people assume all Sicilians must be dark. Although there certainly is an Arab component in the genetic composition of Sicilians, the demographic makeup of Sicily was significantly altered in the wake of the Norman conquest. Following the Normans into Sicily were mainland Italians and Frenchmen, who were encouraged by the Normans to settle throughout Sicily in order to establish Romance speech and Catholicism at the expense of the Arabic and Greek cultures that coexisted at the time. The Normans were tolerant of these cultures, but as they were trying to please the Pope, they pushed for Latinization.
Simultaneously, many of the Arabs voluntarily left the island for Muslim lands or were later expelled at various points, notably under Frederick II a century or so later. Naturally others assimilated into the Latin culture, converted to Catholicism, and were absorbed into the population. The Greeks were so numerous in Sicily to begin with that they assimilated over a longer period of time. In fact, pockets of eastern Sicily remained Greek-speaking and Orthodox Christian up until the 1400s.
Today, one might also wonder why more Sicilians don’t look more like the Tunisians and other North Africans. Both populations have simply changed since medieval times. Contemporary Tunisians and other North Africans have more sub-Saharan ancestors than they did when Sicily was a colony of the Aghlabid emirs of Tunisia. This is because of the trans-Saharan slave trade. By the same token, modern Sicilians have more Norman, French, and Italian ancestors than medieval Sicilians did. Plus, the Greek genetic contribution was enormous.
to polishlady:
about italians and spaniards,you put the exemples that you interest.its ridicolous.
in national footbal team spain there are fernando torres,casillas,pujol,riera,xavi alonso,michel salgado etc,not only raul(now not)guiza or villa.too tennis players spaniard:former number one:ferrero and moya,david ferrer,robredo,feliciano lopez…
now you beatiful polishlady put another exemples more italians,you continued make ridicolous…
add your exemple villa have more light skin or less mediterranean features than your perfect northern exemples like buffon or luca toni that look like italians from km distance.you are ridicolous.
i worked in aerport in zaragoza in spain and there are imposible distinguised spaniard from italians.every day i worked in check machine with hundreds spaniards and italians.the fly were zaragoza-milan and zaragoza-roma and people were mixed italians and spaniard.you beatiful lady polish not have idea of nothing.greetings
i believe more in people that put opinion based in travel or about they had seen with his own eyes.visigoths,lombards or german tribus moved to spain or italy is irrelevant to me.
too marco pole travelled to china but chines look like chines now.or colon and spniards arrived to american island but now in is island there are people loook like indian or subsaharian blacks.
When you get down to it, everyone’s had different experiences based on who they’ve met, what part of a country they’ve visited, etc. This is just my take on it. Most Italians I’ve known have had mainly brown rather than black hair, and although more might have hazel or brown eyes, light-eyed individuals are definitely a larger minority than this map gives them credit for. I don’t doubt that many Spaniards and Greeks are light-eyed and fairer as well, but with respect to Italians at least, the map’s wrong. In fact, when I visited Florence our tour guide even pointed out that the typical Florentine was fair and blond. I’m sorry but more blue eyes in Andalusia or Athens than north-central Italy is inaccurate.
BTW, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss some of Polishlady’s comments because she does have a point about several of the soccer players. With respect to having difficulty in distinguishing Spaniards from Italians, I wholeheartedly agree. We’re just discussing slight differences in the frequency of a given trait, that’s all. There’s a great deal of physical overlap between both groups. Heck, there’s even overlap between northern and southern Europeans, or between southern Europeans and Middle Easterners for that matter. Spaniards and Italians of course are largely descended from the same groups (i.e. Romans, Celts, Germanic peoples, Moors, ancient Iberians, Neolithic settlers, etc.), only what varies is the proportion of each.
You see what you want to see…
to ana.
if you travelled to andalucia,if you know andalucia people you can say that more or less blue eyes than north or central italy,but i think you never been in andalucia.blue eyes or lightest in spain no relation south or north spain.
in south,east and northeast spain there arent genetic traces of moors and jews because were expulsed by kings catholics.but in west and nortwest there are 5 per cent africaans traces and 10 per cent jews traces becouse in this poor and cold lands christians not pursuit and kill jews.
you can show me about united states becouse i never been here but not about spain compare to italy.
its true that i ssw a people plane from veneto in mallorca that look like swiss or french.greetings
^What’s up? Admittedly I’ve never visited Spain but I’m aware that the Moorish admixture in Spaniards is exaggerated, believe me. Despite this, most people generally agree that Spaniards and Portuguese are more uniformly Mediterranean in physical type, whereas Italians are better described as varying blends of Mediterranean and Alpine types. I’ve also seen many Spaniards as well as Italians, and Italians differ more markedly amongst themselves. I will agree that only a very small percentage of Spaniards I’ve seen could pass for Middle Eastern, less than either Italians or Greeks, however by the same token I still maintain that Italians have more light eyes and/or lighter hair. In other words, the variation among Italians is more pronounced.
Again, you see what you want to see. Please, do yourself a big favor and travel to ALL regions of Spain and Portugal and then decide.
I have been all over Northern Italy and, although people there are somewhat lighter than in the south of the country, the majority is still dark eyed and dark haired. Blonds are a distinct minority. You do find more light people in the far Alpine regions of Italy, but that’s it.
several people in this pages that travelled differens parts italy and spain say that in italy more variety and in spain more uniformity.i believe in.its ok
about andalucia before i travel here i have many prejudices but after many travels to andalucia i discovered surprisively that people are more lightest than people from west and northwest spain.you can see in internet the most famous andalucian humourist called “los morancos”(two brothers).they not are uncommun here.
its funny put exemple of how look like the italians with a TOP MODEL and first dame of France CARLA BRUNI.Brasil there are cents of top models but i think its not a good idea put them as exemple of how brazilians look like.ridicolous.
^Good point Pavarotti, models are often a poor example of what the average appearance in a country is. This is especially so for a country such as Mexico, where the population is heavily mestizo or Amerindian but the models are almost always Caucasian or very light-skinned mestizos who easily pass for Caucasian (b/c they pretty much are).
However, it’s equally absurd that people see shows such as The Sopranos or a movie like The Godfather and assume that all Italians are of the dark Mediterranean type. To take it a step further, not even close to all Sicilians or Calabrians are even that dark and ethnic-looking either. I also think that athletes, while typically larger and more robust than the general population of a country, are a much better representative of the average appearance of that nation than models are. Models are often selected for their rarer traits that set them apart from the norm (hence the Mexico example).
I bring up athletes because if you look at the Italian soccer team, I personally believe that they represent a good cross-section of how Italians really look. You have several guys with dark eyes, several with light eyes (green more common than blue), most have dark hair (brown more common than black), and you even have a couple blonds (i.e. De Rossi/Ambrosini). Skin tones are also mostly brunet white to light olive. I think we can both agree that that’s really rather standard.
i agree with you in the national soccer team italian and spain but not in 100 per cent.in spain regions more developed have more possibilities for sports like catalonia in spain and east spain in general.about tennis players the majority are from east:nadal and moya from mallorca,ferrer and ferrero from valencia,robredo from catalonia,basket nba:marc and pau gasol catalonia,rudy fernandez mallorca…
sure is the same for the north italy.
about the sopranos and godfather about italians is the same for when holliwood need actors that speak spanish and look like mexicaans then antonio banderas and penelope cruz are perfect.
i will back about national soccer team.france team are all blacks or from magreb, and is the same for half holland team or english team,then they arent a good exemple of people from this countryes(the muscle of blacks are more fast and strong).greetings
France is a very good example as to how a national team is not at all representative of the native population, but in Italy’s case the vast majority of the players are ethnic Italians. About France, it’s almost safe to say nowadays that the concept of an ethnic Frenchman is increasingly moot because even many of the white Frenchmen have recent non-French ancestry (i.e. Italian, Spanish, Polish, Belgian, etc.). Some people estimate that when one combines the white French citizens with other European ancestries with the more recent immigrants and their descendants (i.e. North Africans, sub-Saharan Africans, Vietnamese, etc.), the percentage is as much as 40% of the total population.
Pavorotti,i’m sorry you misunderstood my comments.Mine was a satirical reply to your countryman fellow that made this kind of comparison.
He only took some light spaniards and compared them to Gattuso.
The same for the brazilian guy.
one reason i believe the spaniards are fairer than other mediterranean populations is that the central and southern spaniards converted to islam and were expelled to north africa by the christians and the lands of central and southern spain were repopulated by northern christian populations from northern Spain and France. I don’t believe that the ‘moors’ of spain were necessarily of north-african origin , much less of arabic origin, but to a great extend , and maybe mostly , native spaniards who were arabized and islamised , everyone knows that the arabization is a cultural process and not an ethnic process , for example everyone thinks that we the Algerians are mainly Arabs , but this is false , our language may be predominantly made of arabic but genetically we are overwhelmingly Berbers , the same is true with Egyptians and other so called “arabs” , they are simply native populations that adopted the arabic language and possibly islam as well , the true Arabs are in fact a people from the Arabian desert that are small in number and unable to colonize and massively populate other coutries . so based on this i can easily speculate that the so called moors of spain were mostly native spaniards or native spaniards mixed with berbers from north africa.
The reconquista war in Spain was in fact only a religious war between christians and muslims and not an ethnic or a nationalistic war as it later was depicted.
ok polishlady.i read and understand you.thanks.
to awful,about history spain i dont believe in very much.
many cities in andalucia were repopulated with centroeuropean,but the mith say andalucia is all arab,too i told that in west and northwest spain(historically celts)are genetic traces africaans and jews.this was confirmed by me in my travels.
now only madrid have quite population in the centre,the majority people are near cost.
@Awtul,
The fact of the matter is that many of the “Arabs” in Sicily were also simply native Sicilians who converted to Islam and adopted the Arabic language. It’s true that some were actual North Africans and Middle Easterners, but much of the population growth that occurred in Sicily during the period of Arab rule was also due to improved nutrition and the introduction of a wide variety of crops such as oranges, lemons, pistachios, better breeds of wheat, etc. Irrigation techniques also improved under the Arabs in Sicily.
The native population of Sicily in other words also greatly increased because of this. The indigenous Sicilians of the time were mainly of Greek, Siculi, Sicani, Elymi, Roman, and perhaps Carthaginian origin.
In one of my earlier posts I also explained how Sicily was largely repopulated by mainland Italians and Frenchmen under the Normans. Spain was also repopulated from the north during the Reconquista. Sicilians are no darker than southern Spaniards. Both populations do indeed have some Arab/Berber admixture but they’re mainly descended from the previous inhabitants plus the people who came after the period of Moorish occupation.
By the same token, many North Africans have European admixture via the Romans, Muslim Spaniards who fled the Reconquista, Sicilians, Greeks, Germanic Vandals, the French, and others. If I may say so, there are basically three main reasons behind why North Africans and southern Europeans tend to look different. Southern Europeans have some northern/central European admixture, North Africans have Saharan/sub-Saharan admixture (slave trading), and both populations have also been relatively isolated due to the existence of the Mediterranean Sea acting as a barrier to what might’ve been more extensive gene flow.
Frankly a racial designation of “Mediterranean” is rather inaccurate. It’s a sea that stretches from Spain all the way to the Levant, and while yes many people from all around the region may tend to share certain traits in common, there are also many differences between them.
to ana:
here we speak about people with 4 grandfathers spaniard or italian.the reality now in spain is during last twenty years arrived spain many people from magreb,southamerica,slaves rumanes,gipsys rumanes,people from bulgary,litthuania,poland,gipsyes from east europe,chines,blacks from africa,albano-kosovar,etc,etc,etc.
about andalucia you are completely wrong.i repeat another time you that genetic studies with people with 4 grandfathers from andalucia (not gipsyes)show that they not have africaans or jews traces.
genetic not lie ana.
but have traces jews and africaa in people other spain regions.
i dont know about sicily.
^I don’t care what certain studies might say. 700 years of occupation and no genetic trace?! That’s a little absurd and frankly, defies logic if you ask me. Again I’m well-aware that the Inquisition expelled many of the Moors and that many of the “Moors” were really Spaniards who converted to Islam, but I’ve also come across other studies that indicate that there is a slight trace of Berber markers in certain regions of southern Spain, such as the Alpujarras region.
As for Sicily, one very recent and likely more accurate study indicates that about 6-7% of the Y chromosomes are of North African origin, whereas about 37% is of Greek origin. Considering that the North African immigration consisted almost entirely of males, that cuts it by half to around 3%.
I’ll try to find the sources.
…and the Greeks are very high in Somalid DNA, Northeast African. Means Sicilians are also high in Somalid.
Read your history of Iberia, read, read, read… Also read about the Berbers, the pure Berbers who were in Iberia. There was very little mixing. The Christian Iberians and the”Moors” were always killing each other …You know the Reconquista, The Crusades…OIIIII.
Here’s one site I came across. My guess is that it will vary by samples tested but it attempts to analyze North African admixture in southern Europe in general.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/01/north-african-male-legacy-in-southern.html
On the genetic origins of Sicilians:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/08/sicilian-y-chromosomes-greek-and-north.html
to ana:
you need read again your first link:
the spain region with more nw africaan traces is CANTABRIA(18 PER CENT),CANTABRIA are in the north spain,between Asturias and Basque country,near the atlantic sea.
another region with many nw africaan traces is GALICIA in the northwest spain,near the atlantic sea too.The name Galicia have relation with Gallia in France,Gaelic languague,walles in Britain,definitively celt name.
both regions were occupated less 100 or 200 years in Spain by arabs or moors.
but Andalucia is not mentioned in his link despite some regions were occupated by arabs more 700 years.
this dates had been confirmed with my own eyes in my travels when i saw what people look like.
i dont believe in history.do you understand me?
for curiosity are you female ana?is not normal female are interested in this issues.greetings.
EVERY European population has traces of Sub-Saharan DNA, all at trivial levels. Also, you have to take into consideration the testing methodology used and the sampling process. Many of these genetic project are terribly flawed.
To show you how screwy this research can be, in certain European countries they have found 9-10% Sub-Saharan DNA in very specific areas that make up about 7-8% of the entire country’s population. Moreover, they used samplings taken in groups that were isolated by slavery, leprosy and malaria. All things considered, the entire country only averages in the 1-2% range.
Take a look at Liverpool, Bristol and Cardiff in the U.K. All regions with a significant number of mulattos and unusually high Sub-Saharan DNA. Please do your research, people… Ignorance is a a VERY dangerous thing.
^LOL no, I’m a guy. Always been fascinated by history and different peoples so I guess that’s why I’m here. Well alright, maybe in Andalusia specifically there aren’t traces of Moorish admixture, but it still sort of goes along with the idea that North African ancestry is stronger in Spain as a whole than in Italy. Having been to Sicily, that figure regarding the much higher percentage of Greek ancestry makes perfect sense. Greeks were also said to have brought significant numbers of women with them, unlike other conquerors of Sicily.
That map is so wrong. 80 % of all Italians have blond or red hair and blue or green eyes and they dont look any different from Northern Europeans. The Spanish trolls on here are pathetic. You wish you were as white Italians but your not since most of you have black hair, dark eyes and you look Middle Eastern. Italy is more similar to Norway, Sweden, Poland, Germany Russia, not Spain, Portugal or Greece.
You, sir are delusional…LOL
despite your links ANA are quite technically for me that i have no idea of anthropology and my english is very bad i think they are very interesting.when i would have time i try read.i like call you with a guy name too.greetings
^No worries on the English. Mio italiano non e molto bene, ma mi piace a parlare quando posso. Haha my shot at Italian there. Never got a chance to take Italian, school didn’t offer it.
Yeah about those links, they’re from an anthropologist named Dienekes Pontikos. He’s generally regarded as a rather credible source of information on this kind of stuff, though perhaps a touch on the sensitive side when it comes to the ancestry of Mediterranean populations, especially Greeks (his ethnic group). Nevertheless, I tend to agree with much of what he says and he’s certainly far more credible than any Nordicist or Afrocentrist.
Too many genetic studies out there attempt to tweak results or cite results out of context with the purpose of achieving a particular agenda. Let’s face it, this stuff is somewhat controversial and many folks don’t like to hear that they could be 1% sub-Saharan, 10% Arab, or what have you. I try to be as objective as possible but it can be hard to find that when dealing with this kind of stuff.
e un mondo dificcile,despite nostra piccola vita e nostro grande cuore,vita intensa,nicoletta barbarino from cataniasonata di vento,¿porque voy a creer en el amor si no me entiende y me abandona cuando mejor estoy?.me cago en el amor.
ti faró na offerta que non podrai riffutare.
i am from 150 km distance cantabric(atlantic)sea and many times i pass to ceuta(africa) in gibraltar with mates from my region and the police stopped someone thought this person are morocaan or argeline.this happen becouse they are in my region some people that could pass to people from magreb.
my region are the most traces africaans in spain i think,despite is not in my case particularely.greetings
Asi, es mejor tener amor una vez que nunca tener amor. Yo recuerdo que la vida puede ser muy dificil y cruel tambien, pero necesitamos entender que las cosas mas importantes en la vida son familia y amigos. ?Verdad?
Sheesh, been a long time since I practiced Spanish with anyone. No malo para un norteamericano eh? Tuve clases de espanol para siete anos, mas o menos, cuando era un estudiante en el colegio y tambien en la universidad.
OK anyway heh, yes I understand that there is overlap between North Africans and southern Europeans sometimes. More often than not though, it’s the North Africans who end up being able to pass for southern Europeans rather than the reverse if you understand what I mean. In other words, far more North Africans can pass for Spaniards or Italians than the numbers of Spaniards or Italians who are able to pass for the darker, more typical North African type.
North Africans are on average a blend of indigenous Berbers (primarily light-skinned Mediterranean Caucasian type), Arabs/Middle Easterners, Europeans, and sub-Saharan Africans. The Middle Eastern, European, and sub-Saharan genetic input occurred mainly in more recent historical times. Phoenicians and Carthaginians from the Levant established colonies in what is now Tunisia, followed by the Greeks and Romans, then in medieval times the Arabs established Islam in the region and settled in North Africa in sizable numbers (converting, Arabizing, and intermarrying with Berbers in the process). In the later Middle Ages right on up until the 19th-20th centuries, the trans-Saharan slave trade brought many sub-Saharans to North Africa, especially women, who bore many children by Arab and Berber men over the centuries. Also, but less significantly, some Europeans were also taken to North Africa as slaves during the Barbary piracy period. Also during this time, many of the Spanish Muslims fled Spain to the Maghreb on account of the Christian Reconquista.
The Arab-identified populations in North Africa are far more likely to have a mixed heritage than the Berbers. In fact, the truth is that the “Arabs” there are largely Arabized Berbers, though mixed with actual Arabs from the Arabian peninsula, sub-Saharans, and to a lesser extent Europeans.
most important that the family,friends and the eye or hair colour is the body health for me.i am happy with my eye,hair,skin and features but i am not happy with my broken nose and another injuries in my body.
about my words in italian are from a singer called TONINO CAROTONE,who have a funny video song in internet titled “me cago en el amor”half in italian and half in spanish.about nicoletta are the only sicilian personne i known, she is nice and likeable.
the most famous personn northafricanne that pass for european are ZIDANE(berebere i think) sure but i dont known if he commun in some argelian areas.too other famos is an french actor starred french films called taxi(too algerian origin like zidane)but i dont remember the name.
i sow in ceuta near straigt gibaltar some morocaan boys with light hair and eyes. but in melilla and nador 300 km southeast ceuta morocaan people are quite darker than ceuta and nobody have light hair,skin or eyes.greetings
^Yes, Moroccans are among the darkest of the North Africans from what I understand. The trans-Saharan slave trade was very heavy there for centuries, and there was also immigration from Saharan regions (i.e. Mali or Mauritania) when Morocco was a large kingdom. That said, many Moroccans are lighter and Mediterranean-looking, again especially the Berbers who as we’ve established may even have lighter hair/eyes.
In Sicily, most of the North African immigrants are from Tunisia. Although many of them have light complexions and look Mediterranean, I’d say a plurality of them show varying levels of Saharan or sub-Saharan admixture. Although this hardly qualifies them as “black,” it’s enough to make them stand out in a crowd of southern Europeans living on the other side of the Mediterranean. Plus, keep in mind that southern Europeans also have varying levels of northern or central European admixture often times.
Have you ever heard of NATIVE ORIGIN Berber people, native to Morocco and other parts of North Africa? These people are fair and quite a few have light hair and eyes.
^Yeah another username btw heh.
This is one of the most interesting web agruements that I have ever witnessed. Now when it come to people groups in Europe, a lot of the groups that settle in Italy and Iberia were very similar to each other. Italy had the Italic groups as well as Greeks, Celts, Lombards, Ostrogoths, Other Germans, and Arabs. Remember the Italic people were the original Romans. Spain had Celts, Iberians, Visigoths, Suevis, Vandals, Basque, and small amounts of Greeks, Jews, and Moors. Remeber the Visigoths, the Suevis, and the Vandals were Germanic tribes. Spain probably attracted British, Irish, Germans, French and Dutch to their country during their three hundred years of empire. I also know that Spain push out many Jews and Moors during the reconquest of the country. I really don’t think that there would be much difference between the two countries Italy and Spain. From what I have seen of both peoples they both look to be white. Some of Nordic and some of Mediteranian appearance. Most do not look Scandinavian but they both appear to be European Caucasian. My family is from Mexico and I have many relatives that were from Spain and France and you would have a hard time telling the difference between them and full blood Northern Europeans. And what do people mean when they say dark? Do they mean that they have a little bit of color because of a sun or do they mean dark like someone from India, the Middle East, or East Asia? As of now I could not say which people are whiter. I do know that I have seen many Spanish people that have resembled Italians, Germans, French, British, Irish, Portuguese, and Scandinavians. Oh well
I agree that there are a lot of blue eyed people in the south of Spain. I’m from catalonia (north-east) I was recently in Granada and I was surprised for the amount of blue eyed people.
In fact you can find a blond/blue eyed person arround Spain or Italy having a brother/sister with dark air and brown eyes. That’s the ealhty point of the mediterranean people, the mix.
All the people with the same face? the same hair? the same eyes? pure breed dogs tend to be beutiful but stupids.
Get DNA tested – then comment. I’m Sicilian with these DNA results below:
Percentages above 4% may be interpreted as highly significant indicators of my family’s DNA origins:
Wales 5.4%
Scotland 4.5%
United Kingdom 4.0%
Northern Ireland 3.9%
France 3.9%
I have blue/green eyes with dark brown hair, white skin that can tan well. One daughter with brown eyes and hair and the other blond hair and blue eyes. I married another Sicilian with dark brown eyes & hair, but with fair skin. My father is blond with blue eyes. To presume Sicilian or Italian are mostly dark is silly. Sicily has had 16 different cultures come to the island. We are a mixture of people from different parts of Europe, North Africa & Mid East. I can clearly say my family has highly significant indicators from the Norman, Frankish & Finnish tribes of Europe. DNA can provide you all much more accurate answers as to population genetics and population drifts – in a scientific approach.
then,now you must wear skirt like your grandfathers from wales,scotland and ireland.
John I do agree with you; Sicilians are a mixture of Italian, French, Arab, British, Norman, North African, Spanish, Jewish, Greek, and other Europeans. It seems to me from reading many history books about Italy and Spain that both nations are of half Northern Eurpean and half Southern European blood lines. That is why I say there probably is little difference between countries when it comes to coloring.
Normans were a small minority ruling class in Sicily. There was relatively little mixing between native Sicilians and Normans. Just like there was little mixing with Arabs in Spain and Portugal.
BTW, my understanding from the people who created the “light hair” and “light eyes” maps is that, based on new research, some percentages will be changed. Some gradients will be marked up a bit in Portugal and Spain along with a sliver of N. Italy. Figures for Greece and some other countries in the southeastern Mediterranean region will be reduced, apparently.
I have talked to many people that have visited or lived in Spain and they have all said that their are many Spanish people with blond hair and blue eyes. In fact they say that they were kind of suprised to see so many people with blond hair and blue eyes.
You get the same thing in Northern Portugal. Celtic, Suevian and Visigothic influences. There is actually a strip just north of Porto that was settled by Vikings where blond and light eyed people are a majority.
I think that Portugal gets it blond and blue eyed influence from celts, because I think that the majority of the suevis, visigoths, and other german tribes settle mostly in Spain. Though like you stated many suevis did settle in far Northern Portugal. Many of the suevis settled in Galacia, North West Spain. But, it is also true that many Celtic people settle in Northern and Central Spain as well Portual. I think that many of the Visigoths settle in Catalania as well as othe parts of Spain. You know that Spain and Portugal probably, I mean most likely, had Germanic people settle in their countries during the time of the Roman empire. It is well known that Rome would allow germans to settle in the empire.
Don’t forget that ancient Galicia (Gallaecia) included all of Northern Portugal and parts of Central Portugal, just below the city of Coimbra. The Suevi and Visigoths certainly made genetic contributions in both countries. Of course, all of Western Iberia was once saturated with Celtic populations at one time, even Andalusia and the Algarve.
Yes, northern and central Iberia had many celtic people. Northern and central Portugal, Galacia, Austuria, Old and New Castle, Aragon, Catalan, Toledo, and Madrid and even parts of Andalusia, all had many Celtic People.
Now the Iberians settled in southern and central Spain and Portugal. Who know what part of the european peoples they belonged to. From what I have seen the Iberians had facial features very similar to Northern Europeans, but what coloring they had blond, red head, brunette, blue eyes brown eyes I do not know.
Here is something that might interest everyone here. Finally some science.
My father’s side is Sicilian and he (and his 8 brothers and sisters) are all blue eyed and they have pale skin that cannot tan. The other interesting point is that they also have a blood cell modification that helps prevents against malaria – so I assume that they have some ancestory in parts of the world where malaria is prevalent (s.europe/north africa)
my eyes are taken from my mother (central italy) – green / brown mix.
I live in Turkey. We’ve been here for over a month now. Since I’ve gotten here, I’ve been stared at like I am crazy. I figured it was because I have bright blue eyes and so far, I have only seen one Turkish person with blue eyes. I also have dark hair. My father was Spanish with a Celtic background, and my mother is Scots-Irish. My freckles and eyes are typical where I’m from. I have been searching the net for anything that will explain why I have been asked if I am related to the “Greeks who came before Ataturk” because three or four different people have brought this up. When I think Greek, I see dark haired Adonis types, similiar to some Italians. Now I am being told that no.. there are blue-eyed Turkish people who have a Greek heritage. And that I look like them.
Do you guys realize you have been arguing over this map for a year and a half?
My great-grandmother on my mother’s side was of northern italian descent. Her parents were from the trentino area and I have their pictures. None of them are dark-skinned, but they seem to have medium/light brown hair. The region they were from is quite atypical though because it was under austrian rule for many years and there is a great degree of admixture with austrians (tiroleans). There are even some german surnames in my family. I suppose that those areas near the border with austria and switzerland are more representative of the alpine type than mediterranean.
I’m surprised that no one has mentioned the hairiness of mediterraneans so far. Who are hairier? The spanish, portuguese, southern italians???
Well to be honest, I don’t think that Southern Europeans are any hairier than Northern Europeans or Eastern Europeans. I think that hairness is more of a whole European trait. Some Europeans are hairy and some are not. I do think that Eurpeans are in general hairer than the other races.
that’s not true. Mediterraneans are much hairier than either northern or eastern europeans. In that aspect, they are closer to middle easterners than to the other Europeans.
Where are your sources?
Glad to see that many people actually understand Sicilian history here. Sicilians are truly a complex amalgamated population representing a blend of various European and Mediterranean peoples. That’s really the best way to describe them. Ancient Greeks, Phoenicians, Romans, Byzantine Greeks, medieval Arabs/Berbers, Normans, French, Lombard Italians, Spaniards, Albanians, and others all came to Sicily and intermarried with the preexisting inhabitants, going all the way back to the original inhabitants, the Siculi (from mainland Italy and an Italic tribe similar to the Romans), the Sicani (thought to be from Iberia), and the Elymi (supposedly from the eastern Mediterranean/Aegean Sea region).
Of all of the above invading and colonizing populations however, none ever immigrated to Sicily on such a massive scale as the Ancient Greeks did. The Arab/Berber immigration during the Middle Ages was also substantial, however a sizable proportion of this Muslim community either left Sicily during the period of Norman rule or was expelled during the reign of Frederick II, who was the last heir to the Norman throne of Sicily (his father was a Swabian German). Additionally, the Arab/Berber immigration was almost entirely male, by which after a few generations or so, Arab-identified Sicilians would’ve been largely native Sicilian in their ancestry despite being Arabic-speaking Muslims. Those reasons are largely why most of today’s Sicilians don’t look more like North Africans. Another reason is that today’s North Africans simply have more Saharan or sub-Saharan ancestry than medieval North Africans did (who hardly had any).
The expulsion of the Moors (just another term for medieval Arabs/Berbers) from Spain, which largely paralleled what happened in Sicily only on a grander scale, also helps to explain why most Spaniards don’t look more like the modern-day North African immigrants one sees in Spanish cities. Spain was also repopulated from the north during and after the Christian Reconquest.
Bottom line, the vast majority of Spaniards and Italians do indeed look very European. Even today’s Greeks, despite their more eastern location and having endured centuries of Ottoman Turkish occupation, tend to look European as well and have a legitimate claim to being descended from the Ancient Greeks. Cypriot Greeks however often appear darker and at least to me, look rather similar to Turks, Lebanese, or Israelis. Mainland Greeks, however, usually resemble either southern Italians or the adjacent Albanian/south Slavic Balkan populations from my experience.
Jonas, Hair color sometimes has an effect on the perception of hairness. I haven’t seen much difference between northern and southern europeans. Lighter hair gives the appearance of having less hair.
^Southern Europeans are probably intermediate between Northern Europeans and Middle Easterners when it comes to hairiness, although I certainly agree with those who say that having darker hair makes one appear hairier. Caucasians in general tend to be moderately hairy however, and since Europeans and Middle Easterners both represent two fairly distinct branches of Caucasians, this is a trait that is sometimes shared between them. Like many other traits, this trait shows clinal variation as one gradually travels through Europe and into the Middle East. I’d say Turkey is where it gets most confusing, as you have many Turks who look more European (i.e. typically Greek/Balkan-like) and many who look more Middle Eastern, along with many who even show Central Asian influence via the original Turks. In this respect Turkey is a very interesting intersection of different cultures and peoples.
sean peguero,where are you from?you write about europe(many about spain)but i think you not have idea,you write only miths that you read i think,but the reality are different.
What do you mean? I have read many books about spain. I have also talked to many people who have visited spain or who are from spain.
I fully agree with that! I am a school bus driver and I can assure you that MANY of the Spanish kids are blond and light brown/dark blond. People is deeply confused about what they see in the movies (the dark haired dancer, it’s a TOPIC!!) but the real thing is that the EUROPEAN Spaniards are much more lighter. For example…me. When I was a child I was completely blond, but now I am light brown. Another fact is that many people thinks that because Mexicans and people from Central America / south america are dark (colonized by Spaniards 500 years ago), then Spaniards are dark aswell. People should visit Spain, take a look at the Spanish kids, and they will see than many of them are blond and also blue eyed.
Why would anyone bring up the amount of hair one group has compared to another. Completely off-topic…
This map is quite faulty. I’ve done quite a bit of traveling throughout Europe and can tell you that the central to northwestern end of Iberia (both Spain and Portugal) have quite a bit more light eyed people than presented. There may also be parts of France that require revision, some areas up and some down.
this map is a shit,northwestern iberia have the most ugly and dark hair in spain and portuguese are darker hair and dark eyes than spanish people.
@Tonio: I wholeheartedly agree that many people can’t seem to make the distinction between Spaniards and Latin Americans (let alone the diversity between different Latin American ethnicities). Many Americans are quite ignorant when it comes to southern Europeans like Spaniards and Italians. That whole dark “Latin lover” stereotype is so pervasive that it even has managed to convince Americans descended from those very ethnicities that that’s how they must all look.
I agree that the whole swarthy “Latin lover” stereotype is instantly what people think of as Spanish-looking (or Italian for that matter). The reality is that most Spaniards are brown-haired and rather pale (they just tan well), the same applies to Italians. Only in certain southernmost regions of Spain or Italy (i.e. Andalusia or Sicily respectively) do people have a close resemblance to southern and eastern Mediterranean populations (i.e. Lebanese, Israelis, etc.), and even in those regions, that look isn’t outright dominant.
If people think Spaniards are dark, read about how the Aztecs of Mexico called them white-skinned bearded foreigners. Everyone in Latin America knows that light skin is a result of European (usually Spanish) ancestry. Most Latin Americans have varying degrees of Native American and/or African ancestry in addition to Spanish ancestry, accounting for the darker looks one sees. Since almost all Spanish-speakers in the U.S. are obviously of Latin American origin, this is why Americans think that if they a white guy with the last name “Martinez,” something must be amiss lol.
Spaniards in the U.S. are assumed to be white (probably Italian in most cases) until they reveal their surnames or open their mouths. The only Latin Americans of any size in the U.S. that has members tracing a majority or all of their ancestry to Spain are Cubans. Even among Cuban-Americans though, quite a few have visible African influence in their phenotypes (more than they’d like to admit).