If you ever wondered “where are people in Europe with blue eyes most concentrated?”, this map is for you.
Also see “The Blonde Map of Europe” here.
I originally saw the “The Blonde Map of Europe” here.
Also, here is an interesting article about the decline of blue eyes in America.
Western Paradigm 
that map is gargage..the Italians are much more blue eyed than Spaniards and Greeks ..check the Map of Coon..
Coon has been totally discredited. Using anything Coon put together is ridiculous.
Ehhhhhh you’re wrong……
Probably if you go to the eastern coast of Spain you’ll find darker spaniards……. but in 2/3 of Spain people is whiter than Italians.
Do not forget that only the east coast was originally Iberic. The center and west Spain was originally celtic mixed with pre-roman tribes.
“the Italians are much more blue eyed than Spaniards”
It looks like if being blue eyed would be a sign of being better which is not true………
And…….. it is true that if you go to south-east Spain, which is the touristic hotspot, people there are not likely to have blue eyes…. but in areas like Segovia around 25% people have blue eyes. I don’t really know why does it bother you. It’s just a fact. Whenever you want I can invite you to my hometown in Segovia and show you. It’s because of the Suevi and the Visigoths, germanic tribes originals from southern Sweden that were around 20% of all Spain’s population in the IV century… also, the reason why in northern Morocco the likely of having blue eyes is higher than 20% is because of the Vandals, a germanic tribe that entered Spain and was pushed to northern Africa because of the Visigoths.
I couldn´t agree more! I don´t know much about Spaniards but where I come from, the State of São Paulo, Southeastern Brazil, as well as in the other southern states in my country, a large number of white people are of Italian descent, and they are usually fair haired and have light eyes. About two million Italians have emmigrated to Brazil for over a century and more than twenty million brazilians nowadays have Italian origins. It is a fact that most of them were Venetians and Lombards, but even so, when I look at this map I just can´t infer that all blue eyed Italians have fled to Brazil.
YOUR COMMENT IS GARBAGE-ANYONE AND ALL HISTORIANS HAVE FOUND THAT THERE ARE MORE BLUE EYED PEOPLE IN SPAIN THAN IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!!
You are utterly wrong to claim that Spain has more blue eye people than in any other country in the world. Clearly you have never been to Ireland or the UK or Scandinavia, all of whom have more blue-eyed people as a percentage of the total population than in Spain. I’m staggered at such a ridiculous, unproven and completely fantastical claim.
Go to Spain then go to Finland, You will see more blue eyes in Finland.
I’m from Russia. In Russia you have blue eyed people, dark eyed, everything. But it not like in certain regions people don’t have blue eyes and in others a lot is in tghis map. All over Russia, Ukraine, etc. people have dark as well as blue eyes. Only in the Caucasus it’s more dark, but even there you’ll see a lot of blue eyed people.
this map is a little bit different …
this map is a little bit different…Renato Biasutti..
Yea because you have been all over Spain…what a moron…
The map is totaly off, most of northern italy and northern france is lighter than spain and portugal , Iam a portuguese american and I have green eyes, but the spaniards are insecure about themselves, they are white but not nordic like sweden and norway or even norther france, so fuck off you spanish bastards we kicked your ass in many past battles,
Lol, doesn’t it suck for portuguese people to be a corrupted version of a spaniard??
Come on, no spaniard would ever consider Portugal as a wealthy country… how’s the bailout going? Are you going to go broke again, you poor little neighbour?
Inferiority complex with Spain appeared!!
Hahahahaha, the Portugueses are showing it all the time!!
Hahaha spaniards make me laught, they have never been capable of accept that the smaller country next to them could be better.
If you had a good scholar system, you would know that you have tried to conquer Portugal, but you got kicked, and dont forget Olivença is Portugal.
well look a this
Oh please give me a break.The italians are all dark with dark eyes ,hairy and an olive complexion.The puerto ricans that live in my area are much lighter than the italians who lives nearby.
If you look at the map. it says that 1-19% of italians would have blue eyes.
I find it reasonable that around 15% of italians would have blue eyes. There’s no need to say that people in Italy has tipically blue eyes, when it’s not true.
Only someone who’s never been to Italy would say such a thing:
“The italians are all dark with dark eyes ,hairy and an olive complexion.The puerto ricans that live in my area are much lighter than the italians who lives nearby”
I’m not saying italians are like scandinavians but that map is totally WRONG.Just take a look to turkey to realize it.Would someone explain me why , if turkey is SOOO blue eyed, the nearby lands beyond the isthmus (Bulgaria, Romania) are SOOO dark? A pool of dark genes, maybe? Yeah and everybody knows about super blond north-western conrer of africa… I wouldn’t even let the one who did this map give me information on the road to follow…
History!
Goths in North Italy around the 3rd century and Germans later, Vandals in North Africa, the crusaders around Byzanz ( today Istambul) and everybody leaving behind their genes…
Also the fact that goths in Spain were around 20% of Spain’s population in the IV century….
actually turkey does have alot of blue eyes, people must take into account of the caacazoid/mongolian assimilation, especilly with the great asian invasions..the huns. these assimilatons happen to all people….even th emost professional anthropologist will tell you thers only three catagories for th ehman race…NEGROID, MONGOL, and CAUCAZOID…the rest are assimilations from the great dispersal, it’s very complex mans early immigration pattern,we don’t know all but we know enough to realize some things about it. this map is accurate…blue yes are and have been historically in these areas!!! look it up
1/3 from Turkish people are in fact Caucasians including:
circassians, chechens, Abkhazians, muslim Georgians, laz and dagestanians (mainly avars, lezgins and dargins).
in 1864 the Caucasian war ended, many Caucasians were expelled to turkey to such extent that nowdays they are 1/3 of Turkish population.
even before that the upper class of turkey mainly: sultans,beks,pasha, zaada and rich merchants (tituls of Turkish nobility like knyaz boyar kupetz graph) preferred to marry girls from Caucasus.
its important to say the real Caucasians are all with white pail and light eyes take kadirov as an example.
In conclusion centuries of intermixing with Caucasians before 1864+
1864 exile were the main reason that 1/3 of Turkish population are Caucasians and nowdays there is new turks turkocaucasian.
that’s why many turks have blue eyes.
if you want to see real, unmixed turks go to Turkmenistan, the original turks came from Asian steppe.
I´ve lived in Italy and Spain and I can assure that Spaniards are lighter in complexion, and more blue eyed. In regards to France I beleive the map is correct.
100% correct-Spaniards have more bule eyes than the people in any other country!!!
OK, this Robert dude and anyone else bantering about Spanish and Italians and their blue eyes are silly. clearly you have never been to Spain guy….. yes, there are blue eyed people , as you will also find blue eyed blond hair throughout Italy especially the further N. you head ( One of my best friends is from Bologna and is, and it’s not all that uncommon), but neither of these places are even close to having more blue eyed people than anywhere in the world. The Department of Cellular and Molecular Medicine at the University of Copenhagen did an extensive study that shows Estonia to have the very highest population of blue eyes.
@nordicfrench
I have been in France,and lot of french had dark hair dark eyes,more than french want us to believe.
As for the spaniards,no way they are lighter and more blue eyed than Italians.
I’ve been there and only in a part of north Spain there are lot of blue eyed.
To finish with,the map is false as hell…a part of north Africa with a percentage of blue eyed people as Galles?
Give me a fucking break….
“As for the spaniards,no way they are lighter and more blue eyed than Italians”
“only in a part of north Spain there are lot of blue eyed”
Have you been to Segovia? That’s the center of Spain. Also, try Caceres. These areas were never populated by the moors. Were No Man’s Land during that time, and that’s why around 1/3 of the population there has blue eyes and light skin.
Whoever think that spaniards are only the one from the east-south coast does simply not know a thing about Spain
Concerning the north part of Africa, the Vandals were a German tribe that came into Spain and then they were kicked by the Visigoths, so they moved to this area.
Plus, I’d not make a big deal. Probably the statistics are 18% in Italy and 22% in Spain. It’s just about the groups that are made there.
“As for the spaniards,no way they are lighter and more blue eyed than Italians”
Have you been to central Spain?? Probably not……. In areas like Segovia or Ávila or Cáceres the % of blue eyes is around 25%-·30%
I think most people here think that having blue eyes is a sign of being better of something and that’s why it pisses them off that a country with slightly lower gdp has higher % of blue eyed people.
NO NEED FOR USING BAD LANGUAGE-YOUR ONLY NEED IS RELY ON FACTS AND THAT IS THAT THERE ARE BLUE EYED PEOPLE IN SPAIN THAN IN ANY
OTHER COUNTRY
Ok buddy….. you can live in your very own world. Maybe some of us have been insensitive to your color blindness? No? Are you able to see the color red by chance? It’s too bad you won’t ever be able to get your pilots license 😦 Honestly though…. you cant put up such ignorant comments and not expect to get a ton of grief for it hahah…
LOL
Portuguese more blue eyed than Galles and Italy…
LOL
have you ever seen the portuguese?????
Sir, you have no clued. Have you ever travelled to Portugal. Have you ever seen NATIVE ORIGIN Portuguese. How ignorant can you possibly be?
I’ve traveled extensively through Italy, Spain and Portugal and have found that northern Italians are the lightest of the group while the central Italians are similar in skin and eye color to the northern Spaniards and the Southern Italians are similar in color to the Southern Spaniards. I’ve found though that the Portuguese are somewhat darker than either the Italians or Spaniards.
To blueeyeditalian, im Portuguese and i have green eyes and light brown/redish hair. My mom is also Portuguese, and she has blue eyes and blonde hair (natural).
So don’t generalize. Ok?
Have you ever been to Portugal? You will surprised at how many fair, light haired, light eyed people there are, particularly in the north and central north. Portugal’s heritage is mainly Celtic, like Spain. In some ways it is even more Celtic than its good neighbor. So many ignorant people around…
I think the map has some inaccuracies in the southern regions.
This map was copied from Eupedia.com. Here is the source page : http://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_of_europe.shtml#eye_colour
The Eupedia Team
@blueyeitalian.
I am Italian and Ihave been all over those places. I can tell the map is almost right, we italians are the darkest people in Europe if you exceptuate some part of north Italy where due to a mix with foreign nationalities during the time, there is some cluster of lighter people. But as a rule even the true pure northern italians are pretty dark. As far as North Africa, the map refers to the berber population, do you know Zidane? He is one of them, check the color of his eyes out.
Stop being ashame of our heritage we are MEDITERRANEANS let’s be proud of it.
Italians do not exist as a unit race.
There are northern italians and southern italians. The first one are similar to central french,alpine mixed with dinarics.Intermediate in eyes and brown in hair on average, even though there are parts in the alps where light eyes are commoner than dark ones.
Southerners are like portuguese people in height (the smallest in europe with maltese)and darker in hair and eyes than spaniards.
Eric
italians do not exist as a one race.There are 2 races: northern and southern, the first one are similar to central frenc, the second to portuguese
aronne
Basically, it is pointless arguing about who is darker Spaniards, Italians, Portuguese or Greeks. I can’t tell who is the darkest or lighest because it depends. My guess would be that Greeks are the darkest, while Northern Italians are the lighest of the Southern Europeans. They are all Southern Europeans with similar hair, eye and skin color distributions. All these groups are slightly darker, on average, than Northern Europeans.
I am Spaniard and I my hair is no way dark, but my skin is darker than a Swedish…what the hell I am!? Am I the result of some evil lab experiment? Please, shoot me, I shoot be dark and an in a “Corrida” with bulls. I do not deserve to be the heritage of fucking Centuries of wars, cultural encounters, trade…
Are you talking about purity in Europe?? Please…do not make me laugh. Go to Island if you want some people not very “mixed” (as if that was so bad)
A cagar home!
EXCUSE ME BUT DON’T GUESS-KNOW THAT SPANIARDS ARE THE LIGHTEST AND SPANIARDS HAVE MORE BLUE EYES THAN ANY NATION IN THE WORLD!!!
Haha…if Puerto Ricans are lighter than Italians check the Puerto Rican demographic…80 percent of respondants stated they were white of Spanish, German and Corsican (Italian) descent…what a horrible comparison.
There is no such thing the Mediterranean race. Noridicsts made that up but go ahead believe, they might just tell u your half whatever! Northern and southern Italians are not racially different…there are only three races in the world…and they are a predominantly Roman people from Aosta to Sicilia.
The Italians look similar to southern and central French and the northern Spanish. Sicilians look like Greeks, and Portuguese. Greeks and Portuguese are by far the darkest in Europe (not that that really matters) and I have met some Italians who look Swiss, German etc.
Incorrect. Travel to Portugal and see for yourself. Don’t post trash.
The majority of Europeans descendents in Brazil comes from Italy, Portugal and Spain. The thing is that they all are darkers than other europeans. Northern italians like to distinguish theirselves of the southerns but Italy as a whole is darker. Even the italians who have light hair and eyes are not as light as the germans in terms of hair and eye color. Germans(the originals) and other nordics have pure light colors, the italians that are a bit lighter than the average in their country are of mixed descent with some other european nation, that’s why they are minority.
The original “italians” are the etrusks and the latini, is well know that the first ones are light in skin, have thin facial lines and have brown(dark and light) eyes and hair. Their ancient pictures proves it, although in a very few images there are blond people, but of dyed hair which was common in ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome. The eyebrows and the eyes are dark which confirms that assumption.
Now about the latini, well this is the special debate cause we have been exposed to Nazi lies since a long ago. They want to say that the patricians were nordic and the rest of the italics were darker. Realistically speaking the latini were very close ethnically to the etrusks. They were not blond neither light eyed. There are misunderstoods of the ancient latin terms. Caesii doesn’t mean blue eyed, some people based on this to say that most ancient roman emperors were blue-eyed. Julius Caesar himself related the word the elephant, nothing to colors and none dictionary will tell you caesii is blue, in the opposity, there are similar words that mean sightless, probably the state of the eye one’s get when older. The eye turns blue but that’s not ethnical, many africans also develop blueish eyes in certain age.
Julius Caesar for example is descrived buy Suetonius as having “black eyes” (“nigris oculi” in latin) the word nigris left no doubt about the color. In the ancient Bust of Brutus from 4 Century BC, his eyes are dark brown with original color. The busts of other romans doesn’t have eye color.
To finnish, all original ancient paintings in Pompeii reveals the brown/orange color of the eyes of the ancient romans, just like Monalisa’s, the famoust italian face in the world. Lisa Gherardini was from a aristhocratic family from the north of Italy, her appereance is typically italian, thin facial lines, light skin but not albino like the nordics; brown hair and orange eyes.
Sorry for some linguistical mistakes in the previous post, I did it in a hurry without reading it.
Continuing, about the Spaniards and the Portugueses, they have Moor and Berber mix in the south, but in the north they are lighter than italians. It’s due to their Keltic or Celtic(as your prefer) heritage, which is close to the french; the latini although had linguistic similarities with this Keltics, can’t be consideraded to belong to the same ethnicy. The called Nordic Keltics were lighter than the latini. Caesar for example admired the Gauls(french people) for their blondism, but got even more impressed with the germanic people, as the italici calls them. Their colours were pure, Tacitus said in his book about the germans that, “he agrees with that ones that claims the germans formed an unmixed people, having their physical characteristics pure and homogeneous”, The latini also had their pure colours, the eyes were/are the same colour of the wine, as described in the ancient time, and the hair slightly light brown.
Romans as Greeks and Egyptians had blond ideals of beauty so they dyed their hair blond or red. The Greeks mythological heroes were blond idealized, although it’s getting clearer that Greeks weren’t the nordic people some wants make the world believe.
The actual Greeks are dark. In the internet is very common to see discussion between Greeks and Macedonians about Greeks ethnicy. The Macedonias argues that they are majorly blonds, blue-eyeds and that the Greeks are turkishs like, not pure as “would have been the ancient Greeks”, but recently was verified ethnicy continuity among ancient and modern Greeks, so the classical Greek(or the Hellenic people as they prefer) weren’t nordic cause the actual greeks are really darker than the rest of Europe.
To the people that claims north italians are much different from south ones, Virgil(ancient roman poet) was described as dark, and he was from the north. Lisa Gherardini, Rafaello Sanzio, Michelangelo Buonarotti, Durante (Dante) Alighieri, Leonardo DaVinci were all north italians and they were not blond. Luciano Pavarotti who died recently was from Modena, which as far as I remember is in the very north of Italy. He had black eyes and hair and not so light skin.
Watch out Italians, I see in sites which are devoted to “the white race” the increase of discrimination against yourselves. They create a fantasy that the patricians were nordic and the actual Italy is made of slaves descents from the east and north africa, when in reality italians are latin/etruscan majorly with a few people a bit more close to the nordics due to a geographical proximity with other European nations and eventual mixture througout history.
The Spanians, in the other hand, are changing that image made of them through latin american people with spanish names that imigrated to US. The Brits for example are facing another side of Spanish ethicny, the Asturians and the Galegos. In the Premiere league: Fernando Torres, Reina, Almunia, Riera, Xabi Alonso and the coach Rafael Benites, are all very light and with clear Celtic heritage. Formula 1 which is very popular have the Asturian Alonso who have blue eyes and light brown hair, Pedro De la Rosa, who is dark eyed and haired but with European facial lines, and the future star Jaime Alguersuari who is very light skinned and blue eyed. Also the Spanish president, Zabatero, has blue eyes, while the italians Romano Prodi and Silvio Berlusconi looks like Sicilians.
Lastest Italian drivers also are representants of the latini/etruscan feature. Trulli, Fisichella, Liuzzi, Bruni, Pantano, Tocaccello are all dark eyed and haired but light skinned and with European characteristics. People like Daniele de Rossi, Ambrosini and etc are rarity in Italy but don’t let some nordic racists makes you think you are inferior. Einstein was the arabic look who achieved much more than any nordic german in his time.
Those who needs to think that they belong to some better race are, actually, psychological week, a naive childish thinking.
(As a note: I’m not a pro-nordic despite having german heritage which is common in the south of Brazil)
Agree: And in moto : Alvaro Bautista, Sete Gibernau, besides Jorge Lorenzo (Valentino Rossi looks like a mulatto) In the English League also Mendieta, De Gea etc (Silva is half japanese)The stereotypes of real native non gysy Spaniards are by ignoramus as DNA has roven beyond a doubt.
Gosh. Northern Italy was occupied by Celts, Lombards, Franks, Austrians. Why do you think it strange for some of us to have blue eyes and light colouring? I know what I am talking about, I am a pale blue-eyed Italian, so is my family, and my boyfriend, and so on! I am not saying we are the majority, I’d say around 30% here in Lombardy. Southern Italy on the other hand was colonized by Greeks and Arabs, so, once again, they are generally darker. Since Normans were there, though, you do see some Sicilians and other Southern Italians having fair colouring.
Turks are never more blue-eyed than Italians, or any other European group. Blue eyes are again not common in southern Europe anyway! The Turks are more blue-eyed than non-European Caucasoids such as Persians, Arabs, Kurds, etc… This map is not that correct, a more accurate, more recent map show well that 18% of Italians have pure blue eyes and 10% of Turks. Light eyes total is 30% in Italy and 18% in Turkey.
WTF???
lol, this map is all wrong!
So the Turks have more blue eyes than Italians? (Im not Italian, by the way…)
Im Portuguese, from (southern europe) altough i don’t have blue eyes, my mom has, and she’s Portuguese aswell .
Just because someone is from a certain place, doesn’t mean that they have to be a certein way.
Thera are blue eyed, blondes in Mexico, Argentina, South Africa, India, etc…
Yes, Turks have much more blue eyed people than you guess, why do you astonish? Are you also one of the ignorant people who confuses Turks with Arabs or with other regional people? Turkish people is caucasian. There are many blue eyed people. More over the biggest, most famous Turk, the founder of modern Turkey, Ataturk had blond hair and sky blue eyes. You can find his photos from internet.
Click below for a sample photo.
brazilian,you likes a teacher.first of all i know all areas of spain and in the north(asturias galicia etc )are more dark hair than in shoutern areas like malaga or cadiz in andalucia because 4OO years ago moors and jews was go out spain and repobled with people fron centroeuropeo.the mith of north spain are lighter than shout is completely false.
second i know all tipes of europeans because i lived 3 years in mallorca.
third i was working in security in airport zragoza and for me is imposible distinguised between italian and spaniard people.the fly were zaragoza-roma and zaragoza- milan and the passengers was mixed.
on the other hand is easy distinguised spaniard against holland,german or english people.
i was working in kosovo(part of srbia with albanian people).when i go back to spain in asturias that is where i live now spaniard people in asturias like me more darker hair than kosovo people.
generally in asturias people are not taller and darker hair.sorry for my bad english.
What a stupid map? ITS A MAP OF LIGHT EYES, LIGHT MEAN (BLUE, GRAY AND GREEN)!
I don’t agree with that map as it’s saying people in Turkey have the same amount of blue eyes as people in the south of England, when most people in Turkey have dark eyes and blue eyes are the most common colour in England. I can tell the difference between a native of Britain and a native of Turkey from how dark they are.
Yes, Turks have much more blue eyed people than you guess, why do you astonish? Are you also one of the ignorant people who confuses Turks with Arabs or with other regional people? Turkish people is caucasian. There are many blue eyed people. More over the biggest, most famous Turk, the founder of modern Turkey, Ataturk had blond hair and sky blue eyes. You can find his photos from internet.
Nobody claim that all of the Turks or most of the Turks are blu eyed but the percentage on the map is maybe lower than real rate of blue eyed peoploe but not more than the original rate.
Of course there are also many dark eyes but light eyes percentage in Turkey is higher than you guess
Click below for a sample photo of Ataturk who is the founder of modern Turkey.
The map seems generally accurate. However, I would take exception with the percentages for Greece; should be more in the 1-19% range, overall. Greece has less than 50% European Y haplogroups and, for the most part, bear physical traits that are closer to Arabs than to Europeans.
Also, some parts of northwest Spain and northern Portugal may actually have populations with more than 49% blue eyes, according to what I have seen during my visits to the region. This is likely the result of many hundreds of Celtic and Germanic domination in central-to-northwest Iberia. The Vikings also established small settlements there, the most well-known being the city of Po’voa de Verzim, just south of Porto, where the people are essentially Norman.
What a load of rubbish. The latin races refuse to accept empirical evidence which shows they are not European at all but sub saharan african. Italians are not a race, but a malange of african near eastern and even asiatic admixtures. People really need to study History and how genetics interplays in the history of nations. The Croatians on the other hand are just Iranian Turk Gypsies with no ancient history that came together, like the Fyromians who are a mixture of various slavic groups.
The root of this eagerness of the Latins and Croatians to call themselves “Germanic” comes from Catholic indoctrination and the desire for the Vatican to dominate Europe by these classifications because they know that Germany is the powerhouse of Europe. Also for the desire of all Catholics to be seen as Germanics comes from a latent inferiorty complex to distance oneself from any hint that Catholics are not white.Just look how easy it is to go from Africa to Italy, you could almost swim from Africa to Italy. Also most of the early church fathers were from Africa and the middle east as were the Roman emperors.
Luciano:
Do you have problems seing?
Correction: “hundreds of [years] of Celtic…”
Strange map. Even in Wales most people are light-eyed, and defintely in South-West England. I live in Denmark where defintely more than 80 per percent of people are light-eyed. The Italians are certainly more light-eyed than the Spanish.
“The Italians are certainly more light-eyed than the Spanish”
Travel to Spain (not the eastern coast) and come back and comment.
DUMKOPH-ITALIANS ARE NOT MORE LIGHT EYED THAN SPANIARDS-SPAIN HAS MORE BLUE EYED PEOPLE THAN ANY OTHER NATION IN THE WORLD!!!-DUMKOLPH!!!
anthropologique:
why? Could you explain me better, please?
Schism, your statement that italians are more light-eyed than the Spaniards is based on what? In certain regions of Spain and Portugal there are darker features due to Moor invasion but the previous population were Celtic and Visigoth, which prevails in northern areas. The light-eyed people in Italy are due to the Lombards settlements and they are big minority even in the north. The “original” population of Italy: the etruscans and latini is quite light skinned but having brown eyes and hair. Julius Caesar who descent directly from the founders of Rome had light skin and black eyes, Brutus had brown eyes as the people in Pompeii and Herculum wall paintings from 2000 years ago.
Probably the italians are more light skinned, cause not only the Lombards are, but in north Iberia the light-eyes percent should be greater than Italy’s.
By the way, Schism, could you tell your nationality?
to artur:
please read my post january 9 about spaniards and italians.
i dont agree about in north spain more blue eyes than shout.
i live now in asturias but i live before in basque country,i know galicia and gallegos,i lived several years in mallorca and i lived months in parts of andalucia and other parts of spain.in algeciras area(cadiz)seven months and i see more blue eyes in the south than north.
this fact have explanatioon too largue but if you want i will tell you.
studies show in the south,east and northeast of spain not traces of northafricaan genetics and few genetics from jews.
on the other hand in west and northwest spain traces of jews are between 10 or 15 per cent and traces of northafricaans are between 5 to 10 per cent
Luciano, get a life already…OIIIII
Viva Lithuania!Viva Lithuania!Viva Lithuania!Viva Lithuania!Still bigest pool of white genes in Mid_East Europe!Italians are half negroes.
Lets change the compilation of the groups and from 0-20% 21%-49% etc make them 0-15% 16-25% 26%-35%
Then the results could be like that Spaniards,Greeks,South Italians belong to 16%-25% group and Northen Italians to 26%-35%.
You became instantly whiter than the other southern groups. 🙂
So what????
Well… in this case most part of Spain would still be in the 26%-35% group.
I’m talking about areas like Segovia or Cáceres which are in the center of Spain and 1/3 has blue eyes.
I talk by personal experience. I’ve got blue eyes…. and in my high-school more than 1/3 people has blue eyes. The reason?? Spanish history. The moors did not get to populate these areas. They were a no man’s land.
Palemonas, you are the second that say something like that about italians!
hyy in june 28, said something similar.
I also think that the percentual rate is inadequate for this map. Probably italians are close to 20%, let’s suppose 18%, and spaniards and portugueses are about 21% or 22%. So the percentual division can be misleading.
Noticed now, it seems strange to me that Greeks have more than 20% of blue eyes, this is probably wrong. They may be the most “dark” of Europe.
I’m not italian so I don’t study italian history deeply, COULD SOME ITALIAN EXPLAIN WHY ITALIANS ARE LIGHT IN COMPLEXION BUT DARK IN EYES AND HAIR?(don’t know if that is said in italians schools)
The Italians are certainly more light-eyed than the Spanish.
It’s saying people in Turkey have the same amount of blue eyes as people in the south of England,it is nonsense.proportion of blue eyes in turkey as 15%
No it’s not true. Where did you get this proportion?
Maybe you don’t know but most of the Jurdish peopole who live in Turkey(about 15-20 millions) are blue eyed too.
It’s not true, kurdish people have a normal proportion of blue eyes as other iranian people. And turkey could have many blue eyed people because the central asian tribes were largely mixed with europeans at first and then came caucasians(the real ones i mean: circassians, chechenians) because they were killed by the russians and hunted from their land because they are muslims.Also georgians and armenians lived historically in turkey. So it is quite possible that in this country there are more fair eyed and fair haired people than in spain, portugal, and greece but not italian because the north is formed largely of lombards who are a german tribe.
to arsen korsicova:
about what base you to say the italians are more light-eyed than spain?could you explain me.
could you see my post of date 9 january.i explain that becouse i know well spaniards,italians and europeans in general.
FOR GREECE, BEING A GREEK UP TO 20% IS FAIRLY ACCURATE.
ARABS/MOORS.BLACKS CONQUERED SPAIN/SOUTH FRANCE…. FOR 800 YEARS AND SICILY FOR 300 YEARS. BYZANTINES GREEKS LOST NORTH AFRICA AND PARTS OF ANATOLIA BUT NEVER FELL TO BLACKS/ MOOORS
CRETE AND CYPRES OFF THE COAST OF ISRAEL AND TURKEY DID FALL UNDER SOME ARAB RULE.
TURKS (WHO WERE CONQUERED BY ARABS AND CONVERTED TO ISLAM BY THE SWORD) THEN SPREAD INTO ANATOLIA AND BALKANS AND PARTS OF GREECE IN THE MID TO LATE 15THCENTURY.. THEY WERE RATHER KILLED OFF IN THE LATE 18 CENTURY AND REMOVED FROM GREEK MAINLAND. KEEP IN MIND THAT GREEKS ALSO INVADED TURKEY IN 1918 AND AFTER SLAUGHTERING INNOCENT TURKS, TURKS TURNED THE TIDE AND KICKED OUT ANATOLIAN GREEKS…WHO LIVED IN TURKEY. THESE ARE THE DARK GREEKS……WHO LIVED UNDER TURKISH OCCUPATION SINCE 14 CENTURY…..POOR BASTARDS.
MY FAMILY IS 40% BLUE EYED AND WHITE AND OTHERS HAVE SLIGHTLY DARKER MEDITERREANEAN FEATURES. WE ARE 100% GREEK BLOOD.
WE ARE PURE GREEK FROM LACONIA….PELOPONNESE.
ITS FUNNY, US WHITE GREEKS WE ALWAYS CALL DARKER GREEKS…TURKS.
HEY WE ARE ALL HUMAN AND DO LOOK EUROPEAN NO MATTER WHAT !!!!!!
BE IT ITALIAN, CROAT, HUNGARIAN, GREEK, GERMANS, SPANISH !!!!
VIVE EURO PEOPLES !
There are practically no Arab haplogroups in Iberia (check the E.U.statistics). NATIVE ORIGIN Berber markers are found in Iberia, yes…but many native origin Berbers were / are blond and light eyed.
Hey yo Greek, you know nothing! You even have no idea about history. Now some free history lesson for you:
1- Anatolia never was invaded by Arabs when it’s under Turk’s rule.
2- Turks accepted Islam at their own request when they are in Asia not in Anatolia.The first big group of Turkic origin people who accepted İslam as their religion were Turkoman who lived in Balasagun and Talas.
3- In the history Turks did not accept or was converted into anything by sword, no sample! They prefer to die!
4- Are you sure you are 10& Greek, I am doubt about being 100% of any Greek citizen…!
well im from Spain and i can say that a lot of andalusians have blue eyes,is totally false that they look like morrocans,some of them are mixed with arabs and gypsies but the majority look european some examples are:Los Morancos,Marisol,Manu Carrasco,Esther OT,Virginia OT,Manu Tenorio,Pastora Soler,Diego Capel,Jaime Cantizano etc.I thing that greeks and portuguese are the darkest of Europe.
Yea, If you guys did not know the galician people have celtic heritage, so the northwestern part of spain should be lighter. And the basques of spain are also mixed with irish and scottish people. I have blue eyes and my mother does too and she’s cuban of galician descent, and my dad has brown eyes and his dad has blue eyes and is cuban of galician descent, go to cuba, you will find alot of blue-eyed people that are of galician and basques descent. italians have blue eyes too you know, some are dark and alot have blue eyes, frank sinatra for example, ol blue eyes.
Espanol, the portugueses are almost the same as the spanishs. To Greek guy, I have to say that no way 20% of Greeks have blue eyes. Greece was darker even before turkish mix, Aristottle said that the Greeks were the not as dark as the africans and not as light as the nordics. Also the artwork of ancient greek reveals their mediterranean features, some even dyed their hair blond or red cause they were not naturally like that. The same for the italians who are a bit lighter than the Greeks due to contact with nothern europeans.
Artur i think portuguese and spanish are some diferences.Also in Spain are some diferences for example catalonians have a lot of frank influences the name of Cataluña came from the word gotholandia that means land of goths.
VERY few differences between Spaniards and Portuguese. Just the Basques and ,to a slight extent, the Catalans and Valencianos. More than two thirds of the Portuguese correlate or mach genetically with other Celtic countries.
Galicians, Northern Portuguese and some Central Portuguese are of the same stock.
Dear friends – and especially brazilian:
I don’t think we will ever settle these problems. We will never demonstrate that “Italians are lighter than Spaniards” or “Spaniards are lighter than Italians and Greeks” or things like that, because these are GENERALIZATIONS. For instance, it is USELESS to mention, like Brazilian does, examples of Italian people who are dark-eyed and dark-haired, because then another person could mention examples of Italian people who are light-eyed.
You mentioned sport? Well, there are De Rossi and Ambrosini, but also Francesco Totti, Luca Toni, Paolo Maldini… or the Bergamasco brothers in rugby (who are so white that they are at high risk of melanoma – I study medicine):
http://www.rivistamadre.it/pagina_articolo.asp?IDX=68IDRX=12
Politicians? You named some who are dark-eyed, but I will name some who are light-eyed: Gianni Cuperlo, Francesco Storace, Franco Giordano (google them).
The same applies to the historic reasons. You, Brazilian, show a wonderful historical culture: but how comes you don’t mention that we had Celts (many of them) in Italy as well; that it was not only the Longbeards who came to Italy, but also the Goths and other northern people; that Veneto (Norht-East Italy; I am Italian and 90% of the Venetians I know have blue eyes) that in the Middle Ages the Normans (of the Hauteville family, cousins of William the Conqueror’s family, in those same years)invaded Southern Italy? The famous Italian writer Giovanni Verga was Sicilian and mentioned in his works that some Sicilians are blue-eyed and blond-haired and are probably the descendants of the Normans.
So, bottom line: it is USELESS to prove a point by showing single examples, single instances, or empiric evidence from personal experience. You cannot generalise. The only thing we can do is propose percentages. AND even percentages are inaccurate, because in a certain area there may be cities with more blonde/blue-eyed people than other ones.
Let’s settle on that: there are light-eyed people in both Spain and Italy. Exact percentages may vary depending on area or depending on statistical methods, but we are not interested in white differences (what difference does it make if it is 70% or 60% in Northern Spain and 40% or 20% in Southern Spain? What difference does it make if it is 15% in Southern Italy, where I come from, BUT 60% in some cities of Southern Italy?). The point is still there: less light-eyed than Scandinavia, but they are still there.
Ciao a tutti,
Luca
Luca,
you are the only one to understand these things. Congratulations.
I’m not italian but I lived there for many years, summarizing I can say as follows:
height:1)greeks and northern italians the tallest.
2)spaniards (few differencies between north/south)
3)portuguese and southern italians
eyes: 1)northern italians the lightest
2)greeks
3)iberians (north west the lightest)-south italian
Hair: 1)northern italians
2)spaniards
3)all the others
skin: 1)northern italians
2)all the others
Northern italians had celts, romans and germanic tribes.
All the others had less germanic blood.
Racially no european country has more differencies between north and south than Italy.
Spain is by far more homogeneous than the others.
Greece and portugal are in the middle between italy and spain.
Palamonas you are an idiot.
Eric
Rediculous…LOL.
i agree with you luca too.
eric i dont understand nothing about you mean in yours numbers.
Simply,
I tried to classified the people based on some items such as height,hair and eyes colour from the tallest/lightest to the shortest/darkest.
Is it so difficult to understand?
Eric
So here is my case:
i’m blue-gray eyed, dark straight hair and very fair skin. I’m a catalan, and everyone thinks that because of being from there, i should be darker.
Yesterday in a lunch here in Germany where I live, my german friends compared their skin to mine, and I was paler than them. They where surprised, and instead of thinking that i was very pale, they thought they were tanned… funny, uh?
People tend to think that southern european are dark, but it’s not necesarilly right.
I’ve lived all around spain and in italy as well, been to Portugal, not to Greece (but seen lots!) and I must say that there as i’ve seen, there is one thing true:
there are dark and light people in all these countries.
I agree with a lot of the people here that in portugal and greece people might be lighter, but still, of course, there are lots of people who are fair in eyes and skin. Of course, not like in northen countries.
In the north of Italy, whatever some people say, there are lots of fair-eyed blonde people, more women than men, dont know why! Way more than wherever i’ve seen in any of these other countries.
Obviously, as you get to the south of italy, people get darker. As in Spain, Portugal or in general, where there is more sun, people are darker. Of course, in these countries we have had lots of moroon influences, but let’s be fair (haha), mediterraneans, are darker than those northen barbarians!! ;P
Anyways, we are all european, so we are mostly fair skinned until there is sun! then we get darker. Put a southern italian in the north of germany without sun for a couple of years and this person will become paler than you can imagine!
I’ve read here that there are lots of blonde andalusians, and it’s absolutely true! There are focuses of very fair people all around spain, but curiously, not so popular where celtic influences like Galicia. Not all celtics are so fair, lots have dark eyes and dark hair! can tell because my partner is from there!
Also say, that the mediterranean lands are the doors to the rest of Europe, so there have been people crossing and staying as well, or just leaving there genes! in all these countries.
If you are fair, be happy, darker will like you! If you are dark, be happy, fairer will like you! 😉
“Oh please give me a break.The italians are all dark with dark eyes ,hairy and an olive complexion.The puerto ricans that live in my area are much lighter than the italians who lives nearby.”
the usual troll that brainwashed by american media say italians are all dark haired dark eyed and olive in complexion…lol
Maybe those who lives in Porto Rico have only a grandad who was italian and they state they are italian….I knew a portorican who had an italian father and a black mom,so he was a mulatto and he said he was italian cause he thought it was cool….
To finish…get your fact right…spaniards are darker than italians,only a little stripe in the north have a bit more paler than the rest of Spain.800 years of moors left a great mark in them.
“@blueyeitalian.
I am Italian and Ihave been all over those places. I can tell the map is almost right, we italians are the darkest people in Europe if you exceptuate some part of north Italy where due to a mix with foreign nationalities during the time, there is some cluster of lighter people. But as a rule even the true pure northern italians are pretty dark. As far as North Africa, the map refers to the berber population, do you know Zidane? He is one of them, check the color of his eyes out.
Stop being ashame of our heritage we are MEDITERRANEANS let’s be proud of it.”
LOL
then what are the spaniards if not mediterramnean you moron?and the algerians???more blue eyed than italians???
Why do you sounds like a troll who probably is not even italian???
“Bute as a rule north italians are pretty dark???”
Are you stupid or what?First you stated they are mixed with nordics than you say they are dark???
Go to Veneto,Piedmont and Tuscany you idiot,than you can talk…
LOL
Anyway an idiot like you that say northafricans are lighter than italians should only go to put is ass in a latrine.
to the brasilian guy…
Well you have a great knowledge of history but not in genetic.
You took only dark haired italians as example,but you left dark spaniards as they were a little percentage in Spain.
I have been in Spain,and i have never thought i was in Scandinavia when i was there.
Meanwhile in some parts of north Italy you could think to be in Swiss or Austria.This doesn’t mean that all italians are like scandinavians,but not even as the turks or northafricans.
As for the romans…and the other you stated….
Augustus was blonde,Flavius too….
Leonardo da Vinci you stated he was dark…lol
Da Vinci was red with blue eyes,as well as Galileo..Dante Alighieri had dark hair and blue eyes,the prince Colonna was blonde…
then next time try to put real facts…..
CHANGE THIS STUPID TITLE! IT’S NOT A MAP OF BLUE EYES BUT OF LIGHT EYES (GRAY, BLUE, GREEN AND ALSO MIXED OF THIS COLOUR). Physical anthropology is my hobby, I know this map, it’s a map of light eyes (gray, blue, green), not only blue. I’ve never seen map of only blue eyed population (there are maps of light eyed) because it’s not important to see concentration of only blue eyed people in anthopology. Why? Because light eyes (gray, blue and green) are very similar and ussually gray eyes are little more light than blue and green are ussually little more dark than blue and for example green-gray eye is lighter than many shades of blue. (clasification of light, dark etc. is by the concentration of melanine, it’s not- ‘how we see it’). There is a special Martin-Schultz scale of eye’s colour.
I noticed that on the other blogs people copied your map and wrote ‘map of blue eyed’ or you copied it from source with wrong title, whatever- it’s a map of light eyes not blue eyes.
From antother hand I think that this map of light eyes insn’t correct.
argues champion the moors in spain were few n we kicked them out plus the most thorough conquest was spain’s thats why many people in italy are darker than in spain n in spain most kids have light hair then it gets darker tho.Portugal may be on the iberian peninsula but they brought in balck slaves tats why they are the europeans with mor non white blood n thats why people cant say spaniards n portuguese are the same.We cant say italians are lighter than spaniards or viceversa.O n not all spaniards are mediterraneans the basques(like me)galicians etc arent in the med sea.
compare fernando torres with gatusso,buffon etc u who is lighter? see wat i mean?
reconquest* sorry
Luca and Eric – If you get on this website again maybe you could help me, because I found your comments the most helpful, altho, I did appreciate some of the others. I’m from the USA (many generations), mostly French-Canadian ancestry (also going back several hundred years), and throw in a little Irish, German, and Native American. I was just curious about French ethnicity and if European French tend to be darker in the south of France as Italians do – in general – I get your point about exceptions and percentages. I have read a little about the Normans,Celtics, Gauls, Franks, everyone knows about the ancient Latin & Greek people, but I had never heard about Etrusks, and have heard about the Moors and Moroccons giving a lot of Europeans darker coloring. I know French can have a range of eye/hair color and complexions, but I generally think of them as being darker, as many of the people in my area are who have French Canadian ancestry. Just curious. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
hi , i’m an algerian , and i agree with the map concerning the far western part of Algeria , it is true that the people of that area (Tlemcen area, to be precise) have a higher percentage of light eyes than the other algerians , they are certainly more than 20% to have light eyes , there are also the kabyle people (to whom Zidane belongs) as well as the other people of the north-eastern coast who have a high rate of green or blue eyes and i’m a bit surprised they are not shown on the map , although i suppose the light eyes rate concerning them could be a bit less than 20% .
i live in Europe for some time and i know that the italians are the only european people who have remained pure mediterraneids , the other southern europeans have been heavily mixed with germanics during the germanic invasions of the 5th century that caused the fall of the roman empire . and concerning the Slavic people of Croatia and Bosnia , they are originally from north-eastern Europe and they emigrated southward during the early middle-ages, it explains the high rate of light eyes among them .
whats weird is that southern poland has the same amount of light eyes as greece. That seems a little mest up
whats weird is that southern poland has the same amount of light eyes as greece and turkey. That seems a little mest up
I agree with what Luca said with respect to Italians. There is tremendous variation among Italians and HARDLY all of them are dark, even in the southernmost regions of Sicily and Calabria (which were ruled by Normans during the Middle Ages and also received a notable influx of Northern Italians who helped to Latinize these areas which had previously been under Byzantine Greek or Muslim Arab control).
I rather tend to agree with those who would say that the map is somewhat incorrect with respect to the percentage of light eye colors in Italy. It’s at least as high as the other southern European countries. I’d actually stay that probably anywhere between 1/2 and 1/3 or so of all the Italians I’ve ever known have blue/green/light mixed eyes, the rest having darker hazel or various shades of brown (and they were from all regions of Italy).
As for hair color, dark brown is the most common, not jet black like some presume. Lighter colors are found in higher frequencies in some northern regious, whereas black hair is perhaps more common in Sicily or Calabria, but dark brown is predominant everywhere.
Sicily probably has the most physical diversity of all the Italian regions because it’s been conquered and settled by a multitude of different groups from all over Europe and the Mediterranean. A stroll through Palermo will verify this. You see folks who look northern European (Norman/French ancestry most likely), people with classically Greek looks, others with typical Roman profiles, and still others who look Arab/Middle Eastern (i.e. black curly hair, olive skin, Semitic features, etc.). Of course, many Sicilians also look to be a mix of two or more of the above groups.
^Oops, I meant to say between 1/4 and 1/3 of all the Italians I’ve known have had blue/green/light mixed eyes.
“i live in Europe for some time and i know that the italians are the only european people who have remained pure mediterraneids , the other southern europeans have been heavily mixed with germanics during the germanic invasions of the 5th century that caused the fall of the roman empire . and concerning the Slavic people of Croatia and Bosnia , they are originally from north-eastern Europe and they emigrated southward during the early middle-ages, it explains the high rate of light eyes among them.”
Are you serious? Sorry but I think you have your facts mixed up. Even outdated anthropologists like Carletoon Coon felt that the Italians were the least “Mediterranid” of all southern Europeans. Many Italians could easily pass for central Europeans or Frenchmen, and not even just the northerners.
Furthermore, with respect to Germanic invasions, Italy was the country in southern Europe that was the most heavily affected. Sure you had Visigoths in Spain, but Italy was invaded and settled extensively by Lombards (who gave their name to the region of Lombardy or Lombardia in Italian), Ostrogoths, and other tribes. Even ancient Rome itself saw quite a few Germanic slaves, some of whom were later freed and absorbed into the population. In medieval times southern Italy also saw a period of Norman occupation. Normans were themselves a mixture of French and Viking origins (the French part itself largely Frankish Germanic as it was northern French).
Greece was actually the country in southern Europe that was least affected by Germanic invasions, which is probably because of its extreme southeastern location in Europe. Greeks from my experience are also the most prevailingly brunet of all Europeans. The ancient Greeks were primarily dark, not fair as some Nordicists and other delusional folks have claimed, and it’s arguable that the Turks may have contributed to the modern Greek gene pool. Furthermore, it’s also true that Slavs and Albanians contributed to modern Greek ancestry as well, therefore lighter-haired lighter-eyed Greeks likely trace some ancestry to these groups, not Germanic peoples.
Thanks Ana.
Your description seems the most accurate and the less partial.
I don’t know why many italians as well tend to state we are the darkest in Europe.
I mean i don’t care if we really were the darkest,but it is not true at all.
As you said Italy probably got more german invasion than anybody else in Europe.
From Tuscany to the northen border for instance,there are by far a largest number of blue eyed people than the map shown.
Unfortunately Hollywood tends to show italian people very dark,and people really believe in this.
I should remember people and especially the southern italians here(who seems to be very glad that people all around the world see north italians as the southern ones….)that the Carla Bruni type or Cipollini,or Totti type is not uncommon like in the south Italy?
For the idiot saying portoricans are whiter than italians….
A friend of mine told me it’s cool for portoricans stating they are italians or half italians…..
Maybe that’s because you saw portoricans whiter than those fake italians…
Italians are the one who gave spaniards and portuguese dark feature.
Last thing for the algerian guy.
what you forgot to write(even if you were wrong about the invasion in Italy,cause as i said Italy got more german invasions than anybody else)is that mediterranean type is as well an indoeuropean type which means that there were blonde haired,blue eyed people as well…)
Anyway this map doesn’t show the high percentage of blonde blue eyed in the zone of Benevento and Apulia,two zones that for their high number of nordic types,interested scholars too.
@Artur
“Julius Caesar who descent directly from the founders of Rome had light skin and black eyes, Brutus had brown eyes as the people in Pompeii and Herculum wall paintings from 2000 years ago.”
Latins were an indoeuropean people then their colour came in several shades.You can’t classify latins as dark hair light skin only.Pompei as for Hercolan and etruscan paintings shown also blonde haired blue eyed.
@Brazilian
Someoine said you have a great knowledge in history but i must correct him.
You have not a great knowledge.
Before the romans,north Italy was almost entirely settled by celts.
From Piedmont to Marche.
The most ancient celt inscription is been found in Italy.
The “stele of Novilara”..
Please guys before talking about others’ history try to inform yourselves.
To the lithuanian guy\guy….italian are half negroes?
Try to explain me the nice slanted eyes of most of the lithuanian whites please….
Maybe Gengis Khan and his hord?
@Soirceness:
As you and I both know, plenty of people have misconceptions about how Italians are supposed to look. I happen to be an American of primarily Italian origin myself (ancestors from Sicily and Tuscany), and I’ve heard some very bizarre assertions a la “Sicilians are part black,” etc. There are people who also think that most Italians are physically indistinguishable from a typical mixed Latin American. Not there’s anything wrong with that, but it’s just a wildly inaccurate assertion.
BTW, LMAO at the guy who thinks that Puerto Ricans are whiter than Italians. Most Puerto Ricans have obvious sub-Saharan African and/or Native American admixture in addition to European. Although I’ve admittedly seen a few Italians who could pass for Middle Eastern or Latin American (possible remnant of the Moorish/Phoenician presence – think Nicholas Turturro), they’re not representative of the average Italian appearance. Besides, no population in the world is “pure.” Gene flow has bound the human race together since we came out of Africa.
@Lithuanian guy: I think you’d be surprised if you took a DNA test. You might uncover a few Central Asian ancestors on the family tree. A noticeable minority of Baltic, Hungarian, and Slavic Europeans have somewhat Asian-looking eyes and/or high cheekbones. Considering their location and contacts with peoples who came from further east (Huns, Avars, Bulgars, Cumans, Petchenegs, Mongols, etc.), it’s not at all far-fetched to say.
You couldn’t write a better comment Ana.
Your comments are always very accurate and precise.
I agree with you with people being completely brainwashed about italians’ roots.
I think the people stating about italians being indistinguishable from a mixed latin american are the same that mistake spaniards people from Spain with latinos-spanish from South America.
As you said there are also very few italians that could pass for middleasterner like Turturro,although his sister could easily pass for an irish.
I have seen many times italian brothers in which one brother was dark haired and the other blonde blue eyed.
For instance i have blue eyes and brown hair,my sister has blonde hair and hazel eyes.My relatives are mediterranean type but with the typical european feautures(like Colin Farrell or Sean Connery to make an example)
This mean that mediterranean type has got the blonde blue eyed genes in itself…
i would like to see two portorican relatives with afro or indio roots make blue eyed or blonde haired kids…lol
The lithuanian girl\guy…well,i hate Hitler,but when he was alive he didn’t hate and persecuted italians…he hated jews and slavic people who considered inferiors….
@Brazilian
well,your comment is almost false as your statements.
There is no such a thing like italians all dark haired dark eyed.
Central-north italians are all but dark haired dark eyed.
You shown that you have a partial view of Italy,and i could make the same typing many italians blue eyed and compare them with other dark europeans stating that italians are blonde and nordic type while other not.
If i took Ambrosini or De Rossi or Carla Bruni as example and i paragoned them with Orlando Bloom,Colin Farrell,or the spanish Raul what will you say?
That english,irish and spaniards are all dark?
I’m married with an italian from Bologna,and although i’ve been brainwashed by people that italians are all dark(and i like as well the mediterranean italians),i had quite the opposite impression when i came to Italy.There is a great ignorance about italians in the world.My husband is almost paler than me,but blue eyed and with dark hair.Of course in Poland you can find many blonde haired,but that doesn’t mean you are wither than a dark haired blue eyed pale skinned italian.Neither of a mediterranean italian though,otherwise you would state that Colin Farrel is not white too.
As for the map,i found it false as well..south Poland with the same amount of blue eyed than Turkye????
I come from south Poland…and i assure you that we have not such a low number of people with blue eyes.
@Spain the jewel of the mediterranean
…Compare De Rossi,Ambrosini,Totti,with Guiza or David Villa…
Still Gattuso has an european greek feature,but Guiza not at all..
As for the italian national team,in the last Eurocup they had 2 real blonde blue eyed nordic types(De Rossi-Ambrosini)and many with blue eyes or light eyes(Buffon,Cannavaro,Lippi,Oddo,Luca Toni,Barzagli,Del Piero).
Spain not.
With this i don’t mean spaniards are all dark though.
^Thanks for the reply. My Sicilian relatives (paternal side) vary from blond and blue-eyed to Arab-looking. This variation is very standard for Sicily given its history, but the average appearance (both in my family and throughout the island) is a look that is akin to Greeks or mainland Italians. My Tuscan great-grandmother was from Florence and she was blonde as a child and with blue eyes. Despite this, she looked very Italian as her facial features were quite “Roman.”
The average Italian really would not look that out of place in central/southern France or the Balkans. I can see some Sicilians or other individuals from the far south looking similar to Lebanese people or other lighter-skinned Middle Eastern/North African types, but in my experience that’s about it. It’s not unreasonable at all to claim that contemporary Italians have substantial continuity with the ancient Romans and other peoples living in Italy at the time (ancient Greeks, Gauls, and other Italic tribes).
Another thing that many people don’t realize is that Italians from different regions settled in different parts of the U.S. Where I live it’s really a mix of northerners, Abruzzesi, Calabresi, and Sicilians. In NYC/NJ it’s heavily Neapolitan/Sicilian, and in California it’s mostly northern Italians.
I even think that it’s interesting how Italians and darker Irish types can look similar, like Sean Connery or Colin Farrell as you stated. There is definitely a Mediterranean strain in the British Isles, and it’s more pronounced in the more heavily “Celtic” areas, particularly parts of Wales and Ireland. Certain genetic studies show similarities between those groups and Spaniards/Portuguese, which might explain it. Neolithic immigrants also reached the British Isles in smaller numbers, and Italians and Balkan populations are probably the Europeans having the greatest amount of Neolithic ancestry.
hi Soirceness, I don’t claim to be an expert in history but from my experience the italians are the darkest people of western Europe so i conclude that they have the less nordic germanic blood among europeans, and yes , i know about the lombardians and the people of northern italy in general , but this is only the northern alpin part of italy , the germanics did not settle or rule over all of italy like the Wisigoths ruled over spain, the Franks over France, or the anglo-saxons over Britain, so yes i think italians are (with germans) the most genetically preserved people from the antiquity Europe.
and about the mediterranean people as far as i know it was a wave of immigrants from the Near-East who around 7000BC settled southern europe and north-africa , these are our common ancestors , they invented agriculture in the fertile crescent then migrated aroung the mediterranean to spread it, these are the neolithic people and the generators of all mediterranean civilisations that grew later.
^The Visigoths in Spain were rather small in number despite establishing control over the entire territory. Also don’t forget that the ancient Gauls (Celts) of the Po Valley in northern Italy were largely fair. Normans and Lombards also made it to southern Italy as well.
Plus look at Greece and then southern Italy. That also doesn’t really add up because not only are southern Italians largely descended from Greeks, but Greece was less affected by Germanic invasions than any part of Italy was. Thus, they should be around the same percentage. This is also taking into account the Slavic invasions of Greece in addition to the Norman/Lombard incursions into southern Italy. Furthermore, both Greece and southern Italy were under the control of Turks and Moors respectively, but in regard to southern Italy, it was mostly just Sicily.
Most of Italians are from Greek….Greek people are ancestor of Latin Italians…
Hi awtul.
Nice to meet you.
Well to be real,the whole Italy had many invasions.
Firsts were the celts but we can’t call that an invasion cause they finally melted with romans creating a celtic\roman heritage from Piedmont-Lombardia-part of Tuscany to Emilia Romagna and Marche.Italians celts are shown to be one of the oldest too.
Then romans took many slaves essentially from celts and germans tribes.Once they replaced (in different times)with 300.000 germans a large part of northern central Italy cause many italics were died in some war and many were fighting all over Europe then there wasn’t anyone who could work in the fields.Many other germans were became romans after their service in the army.
After the fall of the roman empire,almost all the germanic tribes(Longobards,Goths,Eruli) settled in the whole Italy altough some portions of Italy were ruled by Byzantium who wanted to re-build the empire.The middle age saw first muslims in Sicily then Normans that settled in almost all the south.Normans in Europe only settled in southern Italy(from the bottom of Latium until Sicily),of course in Normandie and England.
Anyway following new studies,it has been found that Italy was “maybe” the owner of the famous old european R1b haplogroup,and not Iberia as previously thought;this because Spain lacks all the ancient subclades r1b1b2 present in Italy and it has got the most recent R-M153 and R-M167.R1b is the halogroup almost every european male owns and it has been shown as the haplogroup of the first autochtonous europeans.It was said that many irish and welsh are mediterranean types because of Iberians that settled there,but with this new studies,i started to think ancient italians moved to Europe and Great Britain.
These ancient europeans(Italians?)were all but nordic types.Nordic type is a phenotype that arrived from central Asia long time after.
I forgot that Italy was invaded by Franks too.
As Ana said Italy had many nordic invasions(nordic since nordics didn’t originate in Germany)that anyone else in Europe.
^Soirceness weren’t many parts of northern and north-central Italy somewhat depopulated during the Dark Ages due to the constant warfare, famine, and disease, only to be largely repopulated by the Lombards and other Germanic invaders? Naturally they assimilated into Roman culture, adopted Latin speech, and intermarried with the Gallo-Roman natives to produce northern Italians. If you were to look at many northern Italian surnames, there is an ultimate Germanic origin. Notable examples include Gandolfini, Maldini, Arduini, Pandolfo, Armani, and others.
Contrarily, many Sicilian surnames are of Greek or even Arabic origin. My own Sicilian surname is supposedly of Greek origin, and wouldn’t you know it, I’ve been told I look like a Greek many times, even by other Italians! Examples of Sicilian surnames said to be of Greek origin include Pappalardo, Geracia, Empedocle, and even a few that actually end in ‘s’, much like most actual Greek surnames. Sicilian surnames of possible Arabic origin include Zappala, Alfano, and Ajala.
It’s because of the Arab occupation that people assume all Sicilians must be dark. Although there certainly is an Arab component in the genetic composition of Sicilians, the demographic makeup of Sicily was significantly altered in the wake of the Norman conquest. Following the Normans into Sicily were mainland Italians and Frenchmen, who were encouraged by the Normans to settle throughout Sicily in order to establish Romance speech and Catholicism at the expense of the Arabic and Greek cultures that coexisted at the time. The Normans were tolerant of these cultures, but as they were trying to please the Pope, they pushed for Latinization.
Simultaneously, many of the Arabs voluntarily left the island for Muslim lands or were later expelled at various points, notably under Frederick II a century or so later. Naturally others assimilated into the Latin culture, converted to Catholicism, and were absorbed into the population. The Greeks were so numerous in Sicily to begin with that they assimilated over a longer period of time. In fact, pockets of eastern Sicily remained Greek-speaking and Orthodox Christian up until the 1400s.
Today, one might also wonder why more Sicilians don’t look more like the Tunisians and other North Africans. Both populations have simply changed since medieval times. Contemporary Tunisians and other North Africans have more sub-Saharan ancestors than they did when Sicily was a colony of the Aghlabid emirs of Tunisia. This is because of the trans-Saharan slave trade. By the same token, modern Sicilians have more Norman, French, and Italian ancestors than medieval Sicilians did. Plus, the Greek genetic contribution was enormous.
to polishlady:
about italians and spaniards,you put the exemples that you interest.its ridicolous.
in national footbal team spain there are fernando torres,casillas,pujol,riera,xavi alonso,michel salgado etc,not only raul(now not)guiza or villa.too tennis players spaniard:former number one:ferrero and moya,david ferrer,robredo,feliciano lopez…
now you beatiful polishlady put another exemples more italians,you continued make ridicolous…
add your exemple villa have more light skin or less mediterranean features than your perfect northern exemples like buffon or luca toni that look like italians from km distance.you are ridicolous.
i worked in aerport in zaragoza in spain and there are imposible distinguised spaniard from italians.every day i worked in check machine with hundreds spaniards and italians.the fly were zaragoza-milan and zaragoza-roma and people were mixed italians and spaniard.you beatiful lady polish not have idea of nothing.greetings
i believe more in people that put opinion based in travel or about they had seen with his own eyes.visigoths,lombards or german tribus moved to spain or italy is irrelevant to me.
too marco pole travelled to china but chines look like chines now.or colon and spniards arrived to american island but now in is island there are people loook like indian or subsaharian blacks.
When you get down to it, everyone’s had different experiences based on who they’ve met, what part of a country they’ve visited, etc. This is just my take on it. Most Italians I’ve known have had mainly brown rather than black hair, and although more might have hazel or brown eyes, light-eyed individuals are definitely a larger minority than this map gives them credit for. I don’t doubt that many Spaniards and Greeks are light-eyed and fairer as well, but with respect to Italians at least, the map’s wrong. In fact, when I visited Florence our tour guide even pointed out that the typical Florentine was fair and blond. I’m sorry but more blue eyes in Andalusia or Athens than north-central Italy is inaccurate.
BTW, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss some of Polishlady’s comments because she does have a point about several of the soccer players. With respect to having difficulty in distinguishing Spaniards from Italians, I wholeheartedly agree. We’re just discussing slight differences in the frequency of a given trait, that’s all. There’s a great deal of physical overlap between both groups. Heck, there’s even overlap between northern and southern Europeans, or between southern Europeans and Middle Easterners for that matter. Spaniards and Italians of course are largely descended from the same groups (i.e. Romans, Celts, Germanic peoples, Moors, ancient Iberians, Neolithic settlers, etc.), only what varies is the proportion of each.
You see what you want to see…
to ana.
if you travelled to andalucia,if you know andalucia people you can say that more or less blue eyes than north or central italy,but i think you never been in andalucia.blue eyes or lightest in spain no relation south or north spain.
in south,east and northeast spain there arent genetic traces of moors and jews because were expulsed by kings catholics.but in west and nortwest there are 5 per cent africaans traces and 10 per cent jews traces becouse in this poor and cold lands christians not pursuit and kill jews.
you can show me about united states becouse i never been here but not about spain compare to italy.
its true that i ssw a people plane from veneto in mallorca that look like swiss or french.greetings
^What’s up? Admittedly I’ve never visited Spain but I’m aware that the Moorish admixture in Spaniards is exaggerated, believe me. Despite this, most people generally agree that Spaniards and Portuguese are more uniformly Mediterranean in physical type, whereas Italians are better described as varying blends of Mediterranean and Alpine types. I’ve also seen many Spaniards as well as Italians, and Italians differ more markedly amongst themselves. I will agree that only a very small percentage of Spaniards I’ve seen could pass for Middle Eastern, less than either Italians or Greeks, however by the same token I still maintain that Italians have more light eyes and/or lighter hair. In other words, the variation among Italians is more pronounced.
Again, you see what you want to see. Please, do yourself a big favor and travel to ALL regions of Spain and Portugal and then decide.
I have been all over Northern Italy and, although people there are somewhat lighter than in the south of the country, the majority is still dark eyed and dark haired. Blonds are a distinct minority. You do find more light people in the far Alpine regions of Italy, but that’s it.
several people in this pages that travelled differens parts italy and spain say that in italy more variety and in spain more uniformity.i believe in.its ok
about andalucia before i travel here i have many prejudices but after many travels to andalucia i discovered surprisively that people are more lightest than people from west and northwest spain.you can see in internet the most famous andalucian humourist called “los morancos”(two brothers).they not are uncommun here.
its funny put exemple of how look like the italians with a TOP MODEL and first dame of France CARLA BRUNI.Brasil there are cents of top models but i think its not a good idea put them as exemple of how brazilians look like.ridicolous.
^Good point Pavarotti, models are often a poor example of what the average appearance in a country is. This is especially so for a country such as Mexico, where the population is heavily mestizo or Amerindian but the models are almost always Caucasian or very light-skinned mestizos who easily pass for Caucasian (b/c they pretty much are).
However, it’s equally absurd that people see shows such as The Sopranos or a movie like The Godfather and assume that all Italians are of the dark Mediterranean type. To take it a step further, not even close to all Sicilians or Calabrians are even that dark and ethnic-looking either. I also think that athletes, while typically larger and more robust than the general population of a country, are a much better representative of the average appearance of that nation than models are. Models are often selected for their rarer traits that set them apart from the norm (hence the Mexico example).
I bring up athletes because if you look at the Italian soccer team, I personally believe that they represent a good cross-section of how Italians really look. You have several guys with dark eyes, several with light eyes (green more common than blue), most have dark hair (brown more common than black), and you even have a couple blonds (i.e. De Rossi/Ambrosini). Skin tones are also mostly brunet white to light olive. I think we can both agree that that’s really rather standard.
i agree with you in the national soccer team italian and spain but not in 100 per cent.in spain regions more developed have more possibilities for sports like catalonia in spain and east spain in general.about tennis players the majority are from east:nadal and moya from mallorca,ferrer and ferrero from valencia,robredo from catalonia,basket nba:marc and pau gasol catalonia,rudy fernandez mallorca…
sure is the same for the north italy.
about the sopranos and godfather about italians is the same for when holliwood need actors that speak spanish and look like mexicaans then antonio banderas and penelope cruz are perfect.
i will back about national soccer team.france team are all blacks or from magreb, and is the same for half holland team or english team,then they arent a good exemple of people from this countryes(the muscle of blacks are more fast and strong).greetings
France is a very good example as to how a national team is not at all representative of the native population, but in Italy’s case the vast majority of the players are ethnic Italians. About France, it’s almost safe to say nowadays that the concept of an ethnic Frenchman is increasingly moot because even many of the white Frenchmen have recent non-French ancestry (i.e. Italian, Spanish, Polish, Belgian, etc.). Some people estimate that when one combines the white French citizens with other European ancestries with the more recent immigrants and their descendants (i.e. North Africans, sub-Saharan Africans, Vietnamese, etc.), the percentage is as much as 40% of the total population.
Pavorotti,i’m sorry you misunderstood my comments.Mine was a satirical reply to your countryman fellow that made this kind of comparison.
He only took some light spaniards and compared them to Gattuso.
The same for the brazilian guy.
one reason i believe the spaniards are fairer than other mediterranean populations is that the central and southern spaniards converted to islam and were expelled to north africa by the christians and the lands of central and southern spain were repopulated by northern christian populations from northern Spain and France. I don’t believe that the ‘moors’ of spain were necessarily of north-african origin , much less of arabic origin, but to a great extend , and maybe mostly , native spaniards who were arabized and islamised , everyone knows that the arabization is a cultural process and not an ethnic process , for example everyone thinks that we the Algerians are mainly Arabs , but this is false , our language may be predominantly made of arabic but genetically we are overwhelmingly Berbers , the same is true with Egyptians and other so called “arabs” , they are simply native populations that adopted the arabic language and possibly islam as well , the true Arabs are in fact a people from the Arabian desert that are small in number and unable to colonize and massively populate other coutries . so based on this i can easily speculate that the so called moors of spain were mostly native spaniards or native spaniards mixed with berbers from north africa.
The reconquista war in Spain was in fact only a religious war between christians and muslims and not an ethnic or a nationalistic war as it later was depicted.
ok polishlady.i read and understand you.thanks.
to awful,about history spain i dont believe in very much.
many cities in andalucia were repopulated with centroeuropean,but the mith say andalucia is all arab,too i told that in west and northwest spain(historically celts)are genetic traces africaans and jews.this was confirmed by me in my travels.
now only madrid have quite population in the centre,the majority people are near cost.
@Awtul,
The fact of the matter is that many of the “Arabs” in Sicily were also simply native Sicilians who converted to Islam and adopted the Arabic language. It’s true that some were actual North Africans and Middle Easterners, but much of the population growth that occurred in Sicily during the period of Arab rule was also due to improved nutrition and the introduction of a wide variety of crops such as oranges, lemons, pistachios, better breeds of wheat, etc. Irrigation techniques also improved under the Arabs in Sicily.
The native population of Sicily in other words also greatly increased because of this. The indigenous Sicilians of the time were mainly of Greek, Siculi, Sicani, Elymi, Roman, and perhaps Carthaginian origin.
In one of my earlier posts I also explained how Sicily was largely repopulated by mainland Italians and Frenchmen under the Normans. Spain was also repopulated from the north during the Reconquista. Sicilians are no darker than southern Spaniards. Both populations do indeed have some Arab/Berber admixture but they’re mainly descended from the previous inhabitants plus the people who came after the period of Moorish occupation.
By the same token, many North Africans have European admixture via the Romans, Muslim Spaniards who fled the Reconquista, Sicilians, Greeks, Germanic Vandals, the French, and others. If I may say so, there are basically three main reasons behind why North Africans and southern Europeans tend to look different. Southern Europeans have some northern/central European admixture, North Africans have Saharan/sub-Saharan admixture (slave trading), and both populations have also been relatively isolated due to the existence of the Mediterranean Sea acting as a barrier to what might’ve been more extensive gene flow.
Frankly a racial designation of “Mediterranean” is rather inaccurate. It’s a sea that stretches from Spain all the way to the Levant, and while yes many people from all around the region may tend to share certain traits in common, there are also many differences between them.
to ana:
here we speak about people with 4 grandfathers spaniard or italian.the reality now in spain is during last twenty years arrived spain many people from magreb,southamerica,slaves rumanes,gipsys rumanes,people from bulgary,litthuania,poland,gipsyes from east europe,chines,blacks from africa,albano-kosovar,etc,etc,etc.
about andalucia you are completely wrong.i repeat another time you that genetic studies with people with 4 grandfathers from andalucia (not gipsyes)show that they not have africaans or jews traces.
genetic not lie ana.
but have traces jews and africaa in people other spain regions.
i dont know about sicily.
^I don’t care what certain studies might say. 700 years of occupation and no genetic trace?! That’s a little absurd and frankly, defies logic if you ask me. Again I’m well-aware that the Inquisition expelled many of the Moors and that many of the “Moors” were really Spaniards who converted to Islam, but I’ve also come across other studies that indicate that there is a slight trace of Berber markers in certain regions of southern Spain, such as the Alpujarras region.
As for Sicily, one very recent and likely more accurate study indicates that about 6-7% of the Y chromosomes are of North African origin, whereas about 37% is of Greek origin. Considering that the North African immigration consisted almost entirely of males, that cuts it by half to around 3%.
I’ll try to find the sources.
…and the Greeks are very high in Somalid DNA, Northeast African. Means Sicilians are also high in Somalid.
Read your history of Iberia, read, read, read… Also read about the Berbers, the pure Berbers who were in Iberia. There was very little mixing. The Christian Iberians and the”Moors” were always killing each other …You know the Reconquista, The Crusades…OIIIII.
Read you a book…
Berbers were not arabs before the arabs came in north africa…
So berbers didn’t wake up a day claiming they were followers of Allah..they had arabs behind them who brought lot of northafrican and middleastern dna in Spain.
Here’s one site I came across. My guess is that it will vary by samples tested but it attempts to analyze North African admixture in southern Europe in general.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/01/north-african-male-legacy-in-southern.html
On the genetic origins of Sicilians:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/08/sicilian-y-chromosomes-greek-and-north.html
to ana:
you need read again your first link:
the spain region with more nw africaan traces is CANTABRIA(18 PER CENT),CANTABRIA are in the north spain,between Asturias and Basque country,near the atlantic sea.
another region with many nw africaan traces is GALICIA in the northwest spain,near the atlantic sea too.The name Galicia have relation with Gallia in France,Gaelic languague,walles in Britain,definitively celt name.
both regions were occupated less 100 or 200 years in Spain by arabs or moors.
but Andalucia is not mentioned in his link despite some regions were occupated by arabs more 700 years.
this dates had been confirmed with my own eyes in my travels when i saw what people look like.
i dont believe in history.do you understand me?
for curiosity are you female ana?is not normal female are interested in this issues.greetings.
EVERY European population has traces of Sub-Saharan DNA, all at trivial levels. Also, you have to take into consideration the testing methodology used and the sampling process. Many of these genetic project are terribly flawed.
To show you how screwy this research can be, in certain European countries they have found 9-10% Sub-Saharan DNA in very specific areas that make up about 7-8% of the entire country’s population. Moreover, they used samplings taken in groups that were isolated by slavery, leprosy and malaria. All things considered, the entire country only averages in the 1-2% range.
Take a look at Liverpool, Bristol and Cardiff in the U.K. All regions with a significant number of mulattos and unusually high Sub-Saharan DNA. Please do your research, people… Ignorance is a a VERY dangerous thing.
^LOL no, I’m a guy. Always been fascinated by history and different peoples so I guess that’s why I’m here. Well alright, maybe in Andalusia specifically there aren’t traces of Moorish admixture, but it still sort of goes along with the idea that North African ancestry is stronger in Spain as a whole than in Italy. Having been to Sicily, that figure regarding the much higher percentage of Greek ancestry makes perfect sense. Greeks were also said to have brought significant numbers of women with them, unlike other conquerors of Sicily.
That map is so wrong. 80 % of all Italians have blond or red hair and blue or green eyes and they dont look any different from Northern Europeans. The Spanish trolls on here are pathetic. You wish you were as white Italians but your not since most of you have black hair, dark eyes and you look Middle Eastern. Italy is more similar to Norway, Sweden, Poland, Germany Russia, not Spain, Portugal or Greece.
You, sir are delusional…LOL
despite your links ANA are quite technically for me that i have no idea of anthropology and my english is very bad i think they are very interesting.when i would have time i try read.i like call you with a guy name too.greetings
^No worries on the English. Mio italiano non e molto bene, ma mi piace a parlare quando posso. Haha my shot at Italian there. Never got a chance to take Italian, school didn’t offer it.
Yeah about those links, they’re from an anthropologist named Dienekes Pontikos. He’s generally regarded as a rather credible source of information on this kind of stuff, though perhaps a touch on the sensitive side when it comes to the ancestry of Mediterranean populations, especially Greeks (his ethnic group). Nevertheless, I tend to agree with much of what he says and he’s certainly far more credible than any Nordicist or Afrocentrist.
Too many genetic studies out there attempt to tweak results or cite results out of context with the purpose of achieving a particular agenda. Let’s face it, this stuff is somewhat controversial and many folks don’t like to hear that they could be 1% sub-Saharan, 10% Arab, or what have you. I try to be as objective as possible but it can be hard to find that when dealing with this kind of stuff.
e un mondo dificcile,despite nostra piccola vita e nostro grande cuore,vita intensa,nicoletta barbarino from cataniasonata di vento,¿porque voy a creer en el amor si no me entiende y me abandona cuando mejor estoy?.me cago en el amor.
ti faró na offerta que non podrai riffutare.
i am from 150 km distance cantabric(atlantic)sea and many times i pass to ceuta(africa) in gibraltar with mates from my region and the police stopped someone thought this person are morocaan or argeline.this happen becouse they are in my region some people that could pass to people from magreb.
my region are the most traces africaans in spain i think,despite is not in my case particularely.greetings
Asi, es mejor tener amor una vez que nunca tener amor. Yo recuerdo que la vida puede ser muy dificil y cruel tambien, pero necesitamos entender que las cosas mas importantes en la vida son familia y amigos. ?Verdad?
Sheesh, been a long time since I practiced Spanish with anyone. No malo para un norteamericano eh? Tuve clases de espanol para siete anos, mas o menos, cuando era un estudiante en el colegio y tambien en la universidad.
OK anyway heh, yes I understand that there is overlap between North Africans and southern Europeans sometimes. More often than not though, it’s the North Africans who end up being able to pass for southern Europeans rather than the reverse if you understand what I mean. In other words, far more North Africans can pass for Spaniards or Italians than the numbers of Spaniards or Italians who are able to pass for the darker, more typical North African type.
North Africans are on average a blend of indigenous Berbers (primarily light-skinned Mediterranean Caucasian type), Arabs/Middle Easterners, Europeans, and sub-Saharan Africans. The Middle Eastern, European, and sub-Saharan genetic input occurred mainly in more recent historical times. Phoenicians and Carthaginians from the Levant established colonies in what is now Tunisia, followed by the Greeks and Romans, then in medieval times the Arabs established Islam in the region and settled in North Africa in sizable numbers (converting, Arabizing, and intermarrying with Berbers in the process). In the later Middle Ages right on up until the 19th-20th centuries, the trans-Saharan slave trade brought many sub-Saharans to North Africa, especially women, who bore many children by Arab and Berber men over the centuries. Also, but less significantly, some Europeans were also taken to North Africa as slaves during the Barbary piracy period. Also during this time, many of the Spanish Muslims fled Spain to the Maghreb on account of the Christian Reconquista.
The Arab-identified populations in North Africa are far more likely to have a mixed heritage than the Berbers. In fact, the truth is that the “Arabs” there are largely Arabized Berbers, though mixed with actual Arabs from the Arabian peninsula, sub-Saharans, and to a lesser extent Europeans.
most important that the family,friends and the eye or hair colour is the body health for me.i am happy with my eye,hair,skin and features but i am not happy with my broken nose and another injuries in my body.
about my words in italian are from a singer called TONINO CAROTONE,who have a funny video song in internet titled “me cago en el amor”half in italian and half in spanish.about nicoletta are the only sicilian personne i known, she is nice and likeable.
the most famous personn northafricanne that pass for european are ZIDANE(berebere i think) sure but i dont known if he commun in some argelian areas.too other famos is an french actor starred french films called taxi(too algerian origin like zidane)but i dont remember the name.
i sow in ceuta near straigt gibaltar some morocaan boys with light hair and eyes. but in melilla and nador 300 km southeast ceuta morocaan people are quite darker than ceuta and nobody have light hair,skin or eyes.greetings
^Yes, Moroccans are among the darkest of the North Africans from what I understand. The trans-Saharan slave trade was very heavy there for centuries, and there was also immigration from Saharan regions (i.e. Mali or Mauritania) when Morocco was a large kingdom. That said, many Moroccans are lighter and Mediterranean-looking, again especially the Berbers who as we’ve established may even have lighter hair/eyes.
In Sicily, most of the North African immigrants are from Tunisia. Although many of them have light complexions and look Mediterranean, I’d say a plurality of them show varying levels of Saharan or sub-Saharan admixture. Although this hardly qualifies them as “black,” it’s enough to make them stand out in a crowd of southern Europeans living on the other side of the Mediterranean. Plus, keep in mind that southern Europeans also have varying levels of northern or central European admixture often times.
Have you ever heard of NATIVE ORIGIN Berber people, native to Morocco and other parts of North Africa? These people are fair and quite a few have light hair and eyes.
^Yeah another username btw heh.
This is one of the most interesting web agruements that I have ever witnessed. Now when it come to people groups in Europe, a lot of the groups that settle in Italy and Iberia were very similar to each other. Italy had the Italic groups as well as Greeks, Celts, Lombards, Ostrogoths, Other Germans, and Arabs. Remember the Italic people were the original Romans. Spain had Celts, Iberians, Visigoths, Suevis, Vandals, Basque, and small amounts of Greeks, Jews, and Moors. Remeber the Visigoths, the Suevis, and the Vandals were Germanic tribes. Spain probably attracted British, Irish, Germans, French and Dutch to their country during their three hundred years of empire. I also know that Spain push out many Jews and Moors during the reconquest of the country. I really don’t think that there would be much difference between the two countries Italy and Spain. From what I have seen of both peoples they both look to be white. Some of Nordic and some of Mediteranian appearance. Most do not look Scandinavian but they both appear to be European Caucasian. My family is from Mexico and I have many relatives that were from Spain and France and you would have a hard time telling the difference between them and full blood Northern Europeans. And what do people mean when they say dark? Do they mean that they have a little bit of color because of a sun or do they mean dark like someone from India, the Middle East, or East Asia? As of now I could not say which people are whiter. I do know that I have seen many Spanish people that have resembled Italians, Germans, French, British, Irish, Portuguese, and Scandinavians. Oh well
I agree that there are a lot of blue eyed people in the south of Spain. I’m from catalonia (north-east) I was recently in Granada and I was surprised for the amount of blue eyed people.
In fact you can find a blond/blue eyed person arround Spain or Italy having a brother/sister with dark air and brown eyes. That’s the ealhty point of the mediterranean people, the mix.
All the people with the same face? the same hair? the same eyes? pure breed dogs tend to be beutiful but stupids.
Get DNA tested – then comment. I’m Sicilian with these DNA results below:
Percentages above 4% may be interpreted as highly significant indicators of my family’s DNA origins:
Wales 5.4%
Scotland 4.5%
United Kingdom 4.0%
Northern Ireland 3.9%
France 3.9%
I have blue/green eyes with dark brown hair, white skin that can tan well. One daughter with brown eyes and hair and the other blond hair and blue eyes. I married another Sicilian with dark brown eyes & hair, but with fair skin. My father is blond with blue eyes. To presume Sicilian or Italian are mostly dark is silly. Sicily has had 16 different cultures come to the island. We are a mixture of people from different parts of Europe, North Africa & Mid East. I can clearly say my family has highly significant indicators from the Norman, Frankish & Finnish tribes of Europe. DNA can provide you all much more accurate answers as to population genetics and population drifts – in a scientific approach.
then,now you must wear skirt like your grandfathers from wales,scotland and ireland.
John I do agree with you; Sicilians are a mixture of Italian, French, Arab, British, Norman, North African, Spanish, Jewish, Greek, and other Europeans. It seems to me from reading many history books about Italy and Spain that both nations are of half Northern Eurpean and half Southern European blood lines. That is why I say there probably is little difference between countries when it comes to coloring.
Normans were a small minority ruling class in Sicily. There was relatively little mixing between native Sicilians and Normans. Just like there was little mixing with Arabs in Spain and Portugal.
BTW, my understanding from the people who created the “light hair” and “light eyes” maps is that, based on new research, some percentages will be changed. Some gradients will be marked up a bit in Portugal and Spain along with a sliver of N. Italy. Figures for Greece and some other countries in the southeastern Mediterranean region will be reduced, apparently.
I have talked to many people that have visited or lived in Spain and they have all said that their are many Spanish people with blond hair and blue eyes. In fact they say that they were kind of suprised to see so many people with blond hair and blue eyes.
You get the same thing in Northern Portugal. Celtic, Suevian and Visigothic influences. There is actually a strip just north of Porto that was settled by Vikings where blond and light eyed people are a majority.
I think that Portugal gets it blond and blue eyed influence from celts, because I think that the majority of the suevis, visigoths, and other german tribes settle mostly in Spain. Though like you stated many suevis did settle in far Northern Portugal. Many of the suevis settled in Galacia, North West Spain. But, it is also true that many Celtic people settle in Northern and Central Spain as well Portual. I think that many of the Visigoths settle in Catalania as well as othe parts of Spain. You know that Spain and Portugal probably, I mean most likely, had Germanic people settle in their countries during the time of the Roman empire. It is well known that Rome would allow germans to settle in the empire.
Don’t forget that ancient Galicia (Gallaecia) included all of Northern Portugal and parts of Central Portugal, just below the city of Coimbra. The Suevi and Visigoths certainly made genetic contributions in both countries. Of course, all of Western Iberia was once saturated with Celtic populations at one time, even Andalusia and the Algarve.
Normans were not at all a small minority in Sicily and southern Italy,infact you can find places were it’s quite obvious their heritage.
There are some maps who clearly show this for the high rate of blonde blue eyed people.I don’t mean the dark haired blue eyed that appear sometimes in Spain(who are depigmented mediterraneans),but blonde haired like this guy:
They are not the rule in southern Italy of course but hardly you can find this features in Spain and especially in your beloved Northern Spain.
I’ve seen many more blonde in southern Spain than in the north anyway.
Visighots and Suevi didn’t left any genetic trace in Spain and Portugal infact the amount of I haplogroups are lower than other southern european countries.
You are clearly the proto-indoeuropeans with dark hair and dark eyes(which sometimes you can see the phenotype in Welsh) with a few celtic and arab influence.
In string words you are ancient mediterraneans nothing more nothing less.
Yes, northern and central Iberia had many celtic people. Northern and central Portugal, Galacia, Austuria, Old and New Castle, Aragon, Catalan, Toledo, and Madrid and even parts of Andalusia, all had many Celtic People.
Now the Iberians settled in southern and central Spain and Portugal. Who know what part of the european peoples they belonged to. From what I have seen the Iberians had facial features very similar to Northern Europeans, but what coloring they had blond, red head, brunette, blue eyes brown eyes I do not know.
Here is something that might interest everyone here. Finally some science.
My father’s side is Sicilian and he (and his 8 brothers and sisters) are all blue eyed and they have pale skin that cannot tan. The other interesting point is that they also have a blood cell modification that helps prevents against malaria – so I assume that they have some ancestory in parts of the world where malaria is prevalent (s.europe/north africa)
my eyes are taken from my mother (central italy) – green / brown mix.
I live in Turkey. We’ve been here for over a month now. Since I’ve gotten here, I’ve been stared at like I am crazy. I figured it was because I have bright blue eyes and so far, I have only seen one Turkish person with blue eyes. I also have dark hair. My father was Spanish with a Celtic background, and my mother is Scots-Irish. My freckles and eyes are typical where I’m from. I have been searching the net for anything that will explain why I have been asked if I am related to the “Greeks who came before Ataturk” because three or four different people have brought this up. When I think Greek, I see dark haired Adonis types, similiar to some Italians. Now I am being told that no.. there are blue-eyed Turkish people who have a Greek heritage. And that I look like them.
Do you guys realize you have been arguing over this map for a year and a half?
You don’t look like a Greek girl, you look like a british one. Greeks are darkers than portugueses, italians and spaniards. Look at ancient greek paintings and you’ll see they had dark eyes/hair even in that period.
PS: you are very cute. :rollingeyes:
My great-grandmother on my mother’s side was of northern italian descent. Her parents were from the trentino area and I have their pictures. None of them are dark-skinned, but they seem to have medium/light brown hair. The region they were from is quite atypical though because it was under austrian rule for many years and there is a great degree of admixture with austrians (tiroleans). There are even some german surnames in my family. I suppose that those areas near the border with austria and switzerland are more representative of the alpine type than mediterranean.
I’m surprised that no one has mentioned the hairiness of mediterraneans so far. Who are hairier? The spanish, portuguese, southern italians???
Well to be honest, I don’t think that Southern Europeans are any hairier than Northern Europeans or Eastern Europeans. I think that hairness is more of a whole European trait. Some Europeans are hairy and some are not. I do think that Eurpeans are in general hairer than the other races.
that’s not true. Mediterraneans are much hairier than either northern or eastern europeans. In that aspect, they are closer to middle easterners than to the other Europeans.
Where are your sources?
I don’t know about that, I’m 100% white not semitic-like mediterranean and hairless as a filipino girl!!.. look it up the late Robin Williams,Steven Baldwin or Tom Selleck, just to mention few, hairy features and maybe that will make you rethink about hairness among Europeans
Glad to see that many people actually understand Sicilian history here. Sicilians are truly a complex amalgamated population representing a blend of various European and Mediterranean peoples. That’s really the best way to describe them. Ancient Greeks, Phoenicians, Romans, Byzantine Greeks, medieval Arabs/Berbers, Normans, French, Lombard Italians, Spaniards, Albanians, and others all came to Sicily and intermarried with the preexisting inhabitants, going all the way back to the original inhabitants, the Siculi (from mainland Italy and an Italic tribe similar to the Romans), the Sicani (thought to be from Iberia), and the Elymi (supposedly from the eastern Mediterranean/Aegean Sea region).
Of all of the above invading and colonizing populations however, none ever immigrated to Sicily on such a massive scale as the Ancient Greeks did. The Arab/Berber immigration during the Middle Ages was also substantial, however a sizable proportion of this Muslim community either left Sicily during the period of Norman rule or was expelled during the reign of Frederick II, who was the last heir to the Norman throne of Sicily (his father was a Swabian German). Additionally, the Arab/Berber immigration was almost entirely male, by which after a few generations or so, Arab-identified Sicilians would’ve been largely native Sicilian in their ancestry despite being Arabic-speaking Muslims. Those reasons are largely why most of today’s Sicilians don’t look more like North Africans. Another reason is that today’s North Africans simply have more Saharan or sub-Saharan ancestry than medieval North Africans did (who hardly had any).
The expulsion of the Moors (just another term for medieval Arabs/Berbers) from Spain, which largely paralleled what happened in Sicily only on a grander scale, also helps to explain why most Spaniards don’t look more like the modern-day North African immigrants one sees in Spanish cities. Spain was also repopulated from the north during and after the Christian Reconquest.
Bottom line, the vast majority of Spaniards and Italians do indeed look very European. Even today’s Greeks, despite their more eastern location and having endured centuries of Ottoman Turkish occupation, tend to look European as well and have a legitimate claim to being descended from the Ancient Greeks. Cypriot Greeks however often appear darker and at least to me, look rather similar to Turks, Lebanese, or Israelis. Mainland Greeks, however, usually resemble either southern Italians or the adjacent Albanian/south Slavic Balkan populations from my experience.
I wouldn’t exactly agree with you. From my very personal experience I can tell that the majority of Cypriots looks like South Italians while there is a significant minority of “Western-looking” Cypriots with blond hair and blue eyes. Same goes for most Greek islands, while the mainland of Greece features a large population of Middle-Eastern looks.
Jonas, Hair color sometimes has an effect on the perception of hairness. I haven’t seen much difference between northern and southern europeans. Lighter hair gives the appearance of having less hair.
^Southern Europeans are probably intermediate between Northern Europeans and Middle Easterners when it comes to hairiness, although I certainly agree with those who say that having darker hair makes one appear hairier. Caucasians in general tend to be moderately hairy however, and since Europeans and Middle Easterners both represent two fairly distinct branches of Caucasians, this is a trait that is sometimes shared between them. Like many other traits, this trait shows clinal variation as one gradually travels through Europe and into the Middle East. I’d say Turkey is where it gets most confusing, as you have many Turks who look more European (i.e. typically Greek/Balkan-like) and many who look more Middle Eastern, along with many who even show Central Asian influence via the original Turks. In this respect Turkey is a very interesting intersection of different cultures and peoples.
sean peguero,where are you from?you write about europe(many about spain)but i think you not have idea,you write only miths that you read i think,but the reality are different.
What do you mean? I have read many books about spain. I have also talked to many people who have visited spain or who are from spain.
I fully agree with that! I am a school bus driver and I can assure you that MANY of the Spanish kids are blond and light brown/dark blond. People is deeply confused about what they see in the movies (the dark haired dancer, it’s a TOPIC!!) but the real thing is that the EUROPEAN Spaniards are much more lighter. For example…me. When I was a child I was completely blond, but now I am light brown. Another fact is that many people thinks that because Mexicans and people from Central America / south america are dark (colonized by Spaniards 500 years ago), then Spaniards are dark aswell. People should visit Spain, take a look at the Spanish kids, and they will see than many of them are blond and also blue eyed.
Why would anyone bring up the amount of hair one group has compared to another. Completely off-topic…
This map is quite faulty. I’ve done quite a bit of traveling throughout Europe and can tell you that the central to northwestern end of Iberia (both Spain and Portugal) have quite a bit more light eyed people than presented. There may also be parts of France that require revision, some areas up and some down.
this map is a shit,northwestern iberia have the most ugly and dark hair in spain and portuguese are darker hair and dark eyes than spanish people.
Hey, Julien, are you blind or just completely ignorant?
@Tonio: I wholeheartedly agree that many people can’t seem to make the distinction between Spaniards and Latin Americans (let alone the diversity between different Latin American ethnicities). Many Americans are quite ignorant when it comes to southern Europeans like Spaniards and Italians. That whole dark “Latin lover” stereotype is so pervasive that it even has managed to convince Americans descended from those very ethnicities that that’s how they must all look.
I agree that the whole swarthy “Latin lover” stereotype is instantly what people think of as Spanish-looking (or Italian for that matter). The reality is that most Spaniards are brown-haired and rather pale (they just tan well), the same applies to Italians. Only in certain southernmost regions of Spain or Italy (i.e. Andalusia or Sicily respectively) do people have a close resemblance to southern and eastern Mediterranean populations (i.e. Lebanese, Israelis, etc.), and even in those regions, that look isn’t outright dominant.
If people think Spaniards are dark, read about how the Aztecs of Mexico called them white-skinned bearded foreigners. Everyone in Latin America knows that light skin is a result of European (usually Spanish) ancestry. Most Latin Americans have varying degrees of Native American and/or African ancestry in addition to Spanish ancestry, accounting for the darker looks one sees. Since almost all Spanish-speakers in the U.S. are obviously of Latin American origin, this is why Americans think that if they a white guy with the last name “Martinez,” something must be amiss lol.
Spaniards in the U.S. are assumed to be white (probably Italian in most cases) until they reveal their surnames or open their mouths. The only Latin Americans of any size in the U.S. that has members tracing a majority or all of their ancestry to Spain are Cubans. Even among Cuban-Americans though, quite a few have visible African influence in their phenotypes (more than they’d like to admit).
Big Al I totally agree with you. My family is from Mexico. I have many great great grand parents that were totally 100%white. Some were from Spain, some were from France, and some from other west European countries like Germany. I also have some great great grandparents that were Indians. Many of the ones from Spain were blond and blue eyed.
Don’t forget about people from Argentina and Uruguay. Most of these people are full blood Europeans,about 86% of them. About 35% of them are of Spanish Blood lines. The rest of the population is of Italian, German, French, British, Irish, Belgian, Greek, Russian, other Europeans, Mestizos, Indian, Blacks, and others. Other countries in Latin America have populations of white people. Mexico for instance has about 15 million people of European blood. It is about 15% of the total population.
to kelticy:i was living in northwest spain,in the cantabric(atlantic sea).i know about i tell. i ived too in the south,centre-north, in spain islands etc and i know very well spain.
maradona,50 per cent italian and 50 per cent indian= 100 per cent idiot,drogadict,ugly,short…..etc,etc
Spain and Portugal have been not satured with german and celt dna at all.
It was only a ruling german class,and celts were not that much to change the previous dna lineage.
Arabs stayed for much longer and mixage with locals was quite the rule.
Tons of moriscos were converted more than expelled and we can see their legacy in the repopulation of Cantabria and Galicia.
For my experience spaniards and portuguese appear to be the darkest both for skin and hair.
Second i’m quite deep the italian situation(I work for an italian industry) and in no way that map represents the truth.
Despite what many people say here especially that “antropologique” who has clearly an agenda i had hard times to distingush north italians from some austrians or french(and i mean cetral north french since many southern french can be very dark sometimes).
Southern italians have been largely accused to be the darkest but usually people say this after spent a summer there.
I’ve see much more blonde haired fair skinned southern Italians
in summer than portuguese in winter anyway.
Yes. Portuguese people are lighter than Italians.
This has been concluded in the latest Genome-Wide Association Studies of Quantitatively Measured Skin, Hair, and Eye Pigmentation (2012)
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048294
Example of a Portuguese:
Example of an Italian:
I don’t even understand why are you contesting.
Italians are known for being the darkest Europeans, with their “Guido” looks.
Blonde kids make no the rule.
You can see blonde haired kids everywhere save the subsaharan ones of course.
Even aboriginals have blonde kids who tend to get darker with age.
What amaze me is that people accuse with no basis.
I’ve lived in Canada too and there is a big portuguese community togheter with a southern italian one there.
Sicilians are by far the fairer and many times although they have dark hair i’ve had no problems in categorize them as europeans.
Many times i mistaken portuguese people for pakistani and i don’t mean the capoverdians but those from all over Portugal.
This thread is absurd. it is clear that that last few poster have been making things up, or they are just not very well-informed.
Hey Dutch:
It seems to me that you are the one with an agenda here. Bet you are not even Dutch. … LOL! Come off it now, your comments about Iberians and Italians are absurd. You are either concocting nonsense, in denial or totally blind. Do some research and serious traveling. What incredible statements you make. My god, grow up!
Big Al is absolutely correct. His comments apply to all Iberians and Italians. The misconceptions and lies about Southern Europeans are insane. The level of ignorance now-a-days is beyond belief…
the title of this is “the blue eye map of europe” and here write people from canada like dutch or from mexico like sean peguero and probably both never go out america.only write about films or books.mainly both write nonsenses that for european people make jokes.
mixed caboverdian with portuguese and pakkistani are a good joke.
why not to start?: the blue eye map of america.then you can speak about real things you can see.
Julien I am not sure about what you mean. Your English is not the greatest. I do not live in Mexico. I have read many books and genetic studies. I have also talked to many people who have lived in Spain. They all say the same thing. They say that the people look like other Europeans: Italians, Germans, French, Greeks, English, Sweds. They say that about 70% of them have dark hair, but the population is white. You know that you can have some color to your skin and still be white. Their are many blond blue eyed people that tan very dark but we still consider them to be white. White does not just mean scandinavians. I do agree with Big Al and Keltici. So listen to me before you say that I don’t know what I am talking about.
the map is completely wrong,to put the half england in the same proportion of blue eyed than all spain is ridicolous and the south france have much more blue eyes than spain or italy too.
if you see french people from cote d,azur or france mediterranean in general is completely different to italy or spain.for example people from san remo(italy)are completely different french people from niza,cannes(france) etc despite only are 50 km distance between this cities
“the map is completely wrong,to put the half england in the same proportion of blue eyed than all spain is ridicolous and the south france have much more blue eyes than spain or italy too.
if you see french people from cote d,azur or france mediterranean in general is completely different to italy or spain.for example people from san remo(italy)are completely different french people from niza,cannes(france) etc despite only are 50 km distance between this cities”
Really?Know what?southern french are not even real french since Nice was italian until 1860..
Still in southern France a ligurian dialect is spoken by ancient people..so claiming they are different from people from SanRemo is quite absurd..
Take a look at Garibaldi who was born in Nizza as Italian and see with your eyes..
You can’t even claim hipotetical(as always french assume about italians)arab dna cause Liguria never had arab invasion despite many parts of southern France..
i only write about i see,i dont want to do history lessons and i dont know where garibaldy was born.
vaske country are in spain and france,in both speak vasque but people from vasque country in part france look like different to spain.
too in rossellon in france speak catalan but people from catalonia in spain are different aspect to rossellon.
too i see one time a flight from venetto that people look like more fairer than rest of italy,tis people from venetto look like similar to french or swiiss.
People from Veneto are even whiter than southern french so i really doubt you can make a comparison with Italy saying “they are whiter than the rest of italians”..
Maybe people from Veneto are whiter than the whole southern part of France and whole Iberia too.
The frequency of blondism among the EASTERN BULGARIANS and ROMANIANS is much higher than among the TURKS.
Odomatis, I agree with you.
the frequency of blondism among the SWEEDISH and SCANDINAVIANS is much higher than among the NIGERIANS.
are you agree sean?.
You are sound stupid know!!!
sean,i don´t agree with you.
DutchAssassinCreed
Galicia was NEVER repopulated with arabics, it is one of the few regions in Iberia that have NEVER been ocupated by non-whites.
Galicia’s original racial composition is Visigothic and Celtic, although today you may see some people who look arabic because of internal migration.
Tommy Robredo(spanish tennis player) is catalan, is he diferent from the rossellon? Alguersuari(spanish F1 driver) is catalan, does he look darker than the rossellon? Fernando Alonso is Asturian(region with same ethinical composition as Galicia) and he looks like a English guy.
Spaniards have similar genes to British people(recent research proves that), but in Britain they are lighter because of german invasion. Look how Spaniards’ noses are quite similar to english’s, the italians, in other hand, even the few blond ones, have arabic noses.
LOL
really?italians have arabic nose?And did you check every blonde italian in Italy?
Can you post some blonde Italians with arabic nose please?
I hope you will not post Totti cause his nose is typical ancient roman…not arabic.
Anyway this trend to talk about single fair skinned persons is quite stupid…
I could name many italians,greeks and spaniards who could make some english pass as northafricans….and then?would you want to tell me that spaniards are like english because of few individuals?
galicia have more arab and jews genetic than south and east spain,between 5 to 15 per cent.many arabs and jews migrated to northeastern spain becouse this land are poor and cold and christians not pursuit or kill they there.
according artur spaniards must wears skilts like british,jajuajojo.
Julien you know nothing about Galicia. In Iberia only Castela y Leon, Aragon, Catalunya, Galicia and Asturias never had arab ocupation.
A recent british study PROVES that british genes descent mainly from the spaniards. You just have a stereotyped vision due to Hollywood.
Many spaniards are lighter than your rossellons.
i know perfectly galicia,i travel a lot here.i live in asturias and i know spain becouse for my work i had been living in the south,north,center and east spain,i know very well balearic islands too.
i read the study that show the genetic relation between british islands and iberia,but few spaniards could pas for britain people.
i had travel to england,france,italy and balcans.
but i can know people from all countryes europe when i was living in mallorca.in this island there are people from the whole europe.
genetics studies shown in galicia,asturias,castilla leon there are more northafricaan traces than in andalucia,cataluña o east spain.
genetic not lie artur.
many andalucian villages were repopulated with centroeuroean people for exemple but not centroeuropean arrived to northeast spain.
I agree julien.
I’ve seen some maps who show that catalunian people are far more pure than Galicians and so more similar to central Europe.
Somewhere in northern Spain they have also lot of northafrican dna which is less common in the south.
This map is another fake of internet.
I’ve seen lot of maps and they are completely different.
Plus the blue eyes people in north africa are limited to a little stripe in the far north..
Come on..south England light eyed as Northafrica,,south Poland similar to Turkye…
This map can only satisfy the ones who would have never been put in a map like that…
Nope, it’s not a fake. In the link bellow you’ll find the original. Peter Frost is a serious anthropologist of the modern era with a Ph.D. from The University of Laval in Canada, and he refers to the very same maps (which originally are from 1965, from the works of the American scientist duo, Beals & Hoijer), to explain hair and eye-color diversity in and near Europe. The fact that you have seen many different maps, doesn’t prove their scientific value and in my view, particularly the published works from enthocentric Nazi cretins like Bertil Lundman, Hans Günther and Herman Lundborg possess nothing of substantial academic significance, if it were maps from their studies you were referring to.
http://pages.globetrotter.net/peter_frost61z/European-hair-and-eye-color.htm
these maps are a bad and wrong copy of the coon’s study across europe, the true map is the coon’s map
sorry,i want to write in my last line northwestern spain,not northeast.
dark areas in spain,italy,bulgary,romania,balearic islands,corse,sardinia etc were ridicolous,this areas are similar to the country that belong,
and in northafrica light eyes are practicaly inexistent.
Julien, you are not the first who say Andalusians have light eyes more oftenly than Asturians or Galicians but this is simply unlikely. Andalusia is practically arabian, I have seen many of them and most of them doesn’t look even italian or greek. Google the name Xavi Hernandez, a footballer from Barcelona. He looks completely arabic and this look is usual in Andalusia.
Fernando Alonso is asturian and he could pass for a british very easily and I was told that his look is typical in Asturias.
If you say very few spaniards could pass for a british, how do you explain that only Nadal and Almagro doesn’t look european among spanish tennis players??? All the others : Carlos Moya, Alex Corretja, Ruben Ramirez Hidalgo, Tommy Robredo, Feliciano Lopes, David Ferrer, Jose Higueras(this one looks german search on google) could pass for Englishs, Frenchs, Belgians and etc.
@SanLazzaro, could you post the links of other maps you have seen?
@Julien.
I´ve seen the studies that say galicians have more arabian genes than andalusians. But we must take into account that only were analyzed the paternal lineages. If we analyzed the maternal line and the autosomes we should see that Andalucía is more bastardized than Galicia.
I don´t need any genetic studie to now that andalusians (minority) have more arab genes than galicians,according to geographical location, history and their faces is obvious.
@Artur.
These exaggerating about Andalucia. I thing you have never been there. Is completely false that andalusians are full arabians, and more false is that are darker than southern italians and greeks.
They are many gypsys in there so you have to make the difference.
Please go to Napoles, Portugal, Greece and next go to Andalucía.
Anyone who has been in Andalusia will agree with me that they are clearly europeans, some of them look very arabs and mongrels but they are a minority.
Xavi Hernández completely arabic?
Man, you’ve ever been in Southern Europe or Balkans? People like Xavi is not unusual by these lares. If Xavi is very arab, what is Cavic, Cristiano Ronaldo, Nesta, Quagliarella, Karagounis, etc?
Nicolás Almagro is very gypsy and I thing he has something amerindian in him. Nadal is a good man but looks very exotic.
PD: José Higueras, wich you said can pass as german is from Granada (Andalucía).
you big nonsense artur”andalucia is practically arabian”,you have not a fucking idea of nothing.travel to andalucia to see people.
and this short man without neck called f.alonso could pass for britis?,another nonsense,compare him with jenson button.
almagro and nadal not european?yes european but southern european.
xavi hernandez are totaly catalan,not andalucian and look like southeuropean,similar others southeuropeans faces.
i lived now in asturias,and maybe only between 10 or 20 per cent asturias people could pass for british people in my opinion.
sorry,there are another mistake mine in post december 22,where i write northeastern,i want to write northwestern.
Alonso has light brown hair and blue eyes, comparing him to Button isn’t definitive as considering Alonso a english-looking. Button has very nordic features and this is only usual in Germany, Norway, Sweden, Finland and etc
Even in France is very rare to see someone like Button. You obviously is bias, why call Alonso short? what it has to with this page? Alonso is totally white, you want it or not.
Pictures of Jose Higueras:
Moor ocupation’ maps shows clearly that Andalusia is arabic, even the name Andaluz has arabic origin, look at this maps:
From wikipedia:
“In the early 5th century, Germanic tribes invaded the peninsula, namely the Suevi, the Vandals (Silingi and Hasdingi) and their allies, the Sarmatian Alans. Only the kingdom of the Suevi (Quadi and Marcomanni) endured after the arrival of another wave of Germanic invaders, the Visigoths, who conquered all of the Iberian Peninsula and expelled or partially integrated the Vandals and the Alans. The Visigoths eventually conquered the Suevi kingdom and its capital city Bracara in 584–585.
The Germanic tribe of the Buri also accompanied the Suevi in their invasion of the Iberian Peninsula and colonization of Gallaecia (modern northern Portugal and Galicia). The Buri settled in the region between the rivers Cávado and Homem, in the area known as thereafter as Terras de Boiro or Terras de Bouro (Lands of the Buri).[5]
Other minor influences from this period include some 5th century vestiges of Alan settlement, which were found in Alenquer, Coimbra and even Lisbon.”
@Julien.
Nicolas Almagro european? Please, when I saw him at first time I thought it was from Perú.
Neither Nadal seems at the average spanish.
You assume that all the brits are blond with blue eyes and that is totally false. They are a lot of brits with mediterranean features.
I don´t know how many asturians could pass as brits but in the villages you can see a lot of people with blue eyes.
Why my previous post was censored? Is it Because it had links?
Anyway,@julien_ I know Xavi is catalan but his look is not usual in Catalunya, it’s very typical in Andalusia. The name Andalusia has arabic origin, don’t you know? It came from Andaluz.
Why Alonso doesn’t look english? He has light brown hair, blue eyes and is pale. You can’t say he doesn’t look english because he is not blonde as Button. That kind of blonde people is only often in Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway and etc. Even in France is very rare to see someone like Button.
You said that 10-20% of Asturians could pass for brits. As you live there in Asturias, could you tell an estimate of the % of blue eyed in Asturias?
Pictures of Jose Higueras:
Moor ocupation’ maps shows clearly that Andalusia is arabic, even the name Andaluz has arabic origin, look at this maps:
@Artur.
Man, stop talking shit. In the maps that you put, the reconquest had already begun, even already had formed the kingdom of leon.
Al Andalus has no meaning in Arabic. There are several theses on the origin of the name. Visigothic thesis, alana and Atlantean.
Before talking about my country, pick out its history.
Fernando Alonso blue eyes? you are blind.
Xavi Hernández is not usual on Cataluña? Xavi Hernández is usual in ALL the countries of southern Europe and Balkans. You dont have any idea of what you talk.
a man with common sense,thanks spanishdefender.
artur take your history lessons and your links ad put its in your ass.
vandalos=german tribu….vandalos or vANDALUS=origin ANDALUSia name.
mayority spaniards that have blue or light eyes not have british features .light eyes not make automatically britis features,example corretja or higueras.
i write about andalucia becouse i had been living in cadiz,jaen,malaga,almeria etc but i’afraid you artur has never been here.do you know the most famous andalucians humorists called “los morancos”?.this two brothers not are uncommun in andalucia.
@SpanishDefender
let’s not have cheap talk here, this photo PROVES that I’m right about Alonso’s blue eyes:(you are blind)
You both are talking shit about Andalusia. It’s a arabic place, with arabic looking people(types of Almagro and Xavi very common there) and arabic culture(flamenco for example). Xavi doesn’t look even south european, go to Italy or Greece to see if you find someone like him there. In Iraq, in the other hand, you’ll see a lot.
Do you realize that I’m also “defending” Spain? Leon, Galicia, Asturias, North Portugal and Catalunya have considerable visigothic genes. I’m just pointing out that Andalusia is a diferent story.
@Julien, I first thought you were french, but now I think you are Andalusian and that’s why you are mad at me. Is it? Anyway, as this site is about blue-eyed, can you tell me your estimate of blue-eyed in Asturias, please???
i dont know the percentage of asturians are blue eye.
can you tell us the percentage of light eyes in your city?,sure not
i’from leon and my 4 grandfathers too and his ascendents but now i was living in gijon,the biggest city in asturias for your curiosity.
on the other hand the best students in europe union are sent to complete studies(payed for european union a different countries europe).this program is called ERASMUS.then for you informaton artur the majority choose spain,more concretely the majority choose one spain region,this region is andalucia.then do you think artur they choose andalucia if andalucia were arabian?
greetings
@Artur.
Fernando Alonso has hazel eyes, not blu. compare them with those:
You are not defending Spain because you are defaming Andalucía, wich is an important part of Spain.
You have never been in Andalucía. Flamenco is gypsy, not arab.
In Italy or Greece you can´t find people like Xavi? What about Nesta, Zambrotta? Go to Napoles, Greece, Portugal and the Balkans and next speak.
George Borrow in his book “Bible in Spain” meets an andalusian with very germanic traits. I put the fragment of the book:
“Andalusian Are you? I asked the hostess “I almost say that I think you German.
The landlady: not much mistaken his mercy. It is true that I am Spanish, because I was born in Spain but it is also true that I am of German blood, because my grandparents came from Germany, as well as this gentleman, my lord and husband.
Me: And how did your grandparents come from you to this country?
The hostess: Have not you ever heard your grace speak of the German colonies? There are many in these parts. In ancient times the country was almost deserted, and was very dangerous to travel by it, because of the many thieves. Will one hundred years, a powerful lord sent messengers to Germany to tell the people there so good that these lands were uncultivated for want of hands, and promised to come every farmer who wanted a house and a yoke of oxen, with the necessary to live one year. Following this invitation, many poor families in Germany came to settle in certain towns and ciudadades prevented in the case, which still bear the name of a German colony.
Me: How many are there?
The landlady: Several. Some on this side of Cordova and other other. The closest is Louisiana, which is two leagues from here, over there my husband and I come. The following is Charlotte, a twenty-five miles away, those are the only ones I’ve seen, but there are others farther. ”
Many areas of Andalucia were repopulated with germans as you can see in the fregment of the book.
Andalucía is the region of Spain with more blue eyes, no doubt.
@julien
Through all historical data I’ve seen about Iberia, the regions of Leon, North Portugal, Asturias and Galicia should have about the same genothype.
Can I ask the color of your family’s members eyes ?
@SpanishDefender
Alonso has blue,green and brown pigments in his eyes but mainly blue and green.
Changing the subject a bit, I read somewhere that a italian geneticist called Cavalli-Sforza claimed that about 50% of all italians have light eyes. hahahahahahahah
Cavalli Sforza is a serious genetist so it useless you talk about him as a “common genetist”.
Italy have not 50% of blue eyes of course,but probably he was talking about light eyes on the whole.
Hazel,green,blue,or mixed light of every colour.
Pure brown eyes are not that common in Italy as brainwashed people think.
i not sure what spain region have more light eyes but andalucia a lot,
many spaniards have miked eyes color between green and brown,not only dark,green or blue due mixture iberians,celts,romans,greeks,jews,arabs etc,etc.
genetics studies between vasques(in basque country and navarra) shown vasques are pures without mix germans,moors,jews etc(they only married betwen themselves since always),they are genetically different to rest europe and world but despite this fact there are vasques with dark,green,blue eyes and different hair too.
salut i forza al canut
i lived seven months in algeciras(cadiz)the more southern city in iberia with 100000 inhabitants and i almost assure you that here i saw the most beautiful spanish women in spain without arabian features.
too i lived in two cities in north morocco(2 months in melilla and 4 months in ceuta)the features of people here not look like nothing people from algeciras(the other side of mediterranean sea).
mondodificile.nostra piccola vita e nostro grande cuore.
to artur:
i run in a local race in 31 december in gijon(asturias).there are a crowd runners(about 3000 people) and a crowd people on the city sidewalks.i remember you ask me for eyes colour in my city and i estimated between 30 to 60 per cent with light eyes,or maybe 30 per cent blue,30 per cent green-light brown and 30 or 40 per cent dark eyes.it was a clue day(the colour depend sun days or clue days too)
anyway you can see today about 15 pictures with hight resolution about this race in internet:
“el comercio digital”,(journal),san silvestre 2009(race)and pictures about(fotos in spanish).
greetings
to artur:
http://www.elcomerciodigital.com/multimedia/fotos/ultimos/48889-silvestre-gijon-0.html
Everyone keeps talking about the Arabs in Spain. The truth is that very few people of Arab, North African and Black African people settled in Spain. I have read of esteemates of about 50,000 muslems conquering Spain. The total population of the penensula at the time was probaly about 5,000,000 people. These musulims people didn’t bring families with them. So that would be 1% of the total population. The majority of the muslems were also expelled from Spain. So how could less than 1% of the population do anything genetically to the who population. These a historical facts not some boobs opinion. I know that most Spanish people have brown hair and brown eyes. But, I have talked to many people that have lived in Spain and they make it sound that about 30% have blond or red hair and that about 40% are blue or green eyed. I know that many of them say that they do not look any different than other Europeans. Some are a little darker and some are very fair. They say that they do look different from the Arab and North African people. Also, when they talk about muslems in Spain they were people that were of European blood that had converted to Islam. I am sure that there are a few gypses and dark people who are Spanish but they are the very very few.
Julien, I pointed out how light spanish tennist players are at this forum:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=155947#post155947
artur,why insist you about show me pictures tennis players?they are few people and you put who interest you.i,m spaniard and isn’t unnecesary to me.did you see pictures i show you about a crowds people in my city?.there you can see hundreds people.
you ask me many but, what about you?,it’s clear you don’t live in europe and you never travelled across europe.
I think that overall this map is pretty right on. In Europe, the further South, the darker the eyes get, no surprise here….
I would like to adress the debate that has been going on with regards to who are the darkest and lightest amongst the Southern European population.
I agree with Big Al that Spaniards, Portuguese and Italians are all very similar. All of these groups are a composite of various Nordic and Mediterranean ethicities.
Genetically speaking, Spaniards, Portuguese and Italians are, on average, very similar with the qualification that Italians, Southern Italians in particular, have much more of a Greek influence than do either the Spanish or the Portuguese. But Spaniards, Portuguese, and Italian populations (including Northern and Southern), taken as a whole, are closer to one another, than any of these groups are to Greeks.
Notice, this autosomal DNA cluster map:
The only two countries where there is significant overlap with Italy are Spain and Portugal although there is minor overlap with Romania and former Yugoslavia. Portugal only overlaps with Spain and Italy. Spain overlaps with Portugal, Italy, France, and a tiny bit of Swiss.
What does this all mean as far as eye color? Spaniards, Italians and Portuguese should have similar distributions of eye color, because their genetic makeup is very similar and the populations live at similar latitudes.
Greeks are more Neolithic in ancestry than Spaniards or Portuguese or Italians, but I don’t think they that much darker in terms of eye color, hair color, or skin tone.
@Artur
I’ve seen your post on that site “TheApricity”.
Italians are in no way less light eyed than Spain.
Above all the center north side of Italy.
Let alone the map above who is clearly a fake.
Take whatever source you want,based on scientifical tests and made on the “field”with samples from every region.
Italy has more blondes and even more light eyed people then Spain.
I’m not saying this to make a comparison with Spain,but when we talk about real facts,posting some random light spaniards claiming this way “Spain is more light eyed” than Italy and Greece makes no sense at all.
@SanLazzaro
You just stated things without any prove. I have traveled to England, France, Italy, Spain and Portugal.
Of course there is light eyed italians, but this “Northern Italians are blonde blue-eyed” statement is simply a myth. Most of North Italians I saw on the streets, restaurants and etc had dark eyes.
To be honest, is very hard to say who has more light eyed between Italians and Spaniards but when compared to Frenchs and specially to Englishs, one can really see the difference between Southern and Northern Europeans.
I’m not saying that whole north italians are blonde blue eyed,i’m talking about percentages and percentages say that Italy on the whole is not at all less light eyed than Spain.
The fact you travelled all around Europe is not a proof either,only speculating.
First time i went to England i was 10 years old and i thought they were all blonde haired and blue eyed but i failed to see them all like vickings,but we can’t deny that English on the whole are more lighter than south Europe.
many North Italians you have seen were not even north italians probably.
Statistics on the north italians say that the percentages is 25\30\35 % light eyed with places where percentages reach 45\50%.
Even south Italy is 15% so it’s impossible you have not seen any with blue eyes or blonde hair.
Percentages are clear.
Over 100 people in north Italy you should have seen at least 25 people with blue eyes,let’s make 15 to restrict the percentages.
Of course not all north italians have blue eyes,but the same goes for Spain,where percentages of blue eyes are even more little.
Re SanLazzaro
“This map is another fake of internet.
I’ve seen lot of maps and they are completely different.”
Nope, it’s not a fake. In the link bellow you’ll find the original. Peter Frost is a serious anthropologist of the modern era with a Ph.D. from The University of Laval in Canada, and he refers to the very same maps which originally are from 1965, from the works of the American scientist duo, Beals & Hoijer, to explain hair and eye-color diversity in and near Europe. The fact that you have seen many different maps, doesn’t prove their scientific value and in my view, particularly the published works from enthocentric Nazi cretins like Bertil Lundman, Hans Günther and Herman Lundborg possess nothing of substantial academic significance, if it were maps from their studies
you were referring.
http://pages.globetrotter.net/peter_frost61z/European-hair-and-eye-color.htm
Gunther?who has never talked about Gunter?
I’ve seen Biasutti,Cavalli Sforza and many others.
Even the site who first promoted this map(eupedia)changed it because it was a fake.
One “serious anthropologist” doesn’t make the rule too anyway and many highlighted places of fair eyes in the map would make laugh even a child.
It shamefully contradicts also the cephalic index which usually goes along with fair eyes.
Google “fair eyes Europe”and you will see that many serious dna sites laugh at this map.
Just take a look at Turkye,then Cornwall and Wales.
To me it’s enough to laugh at this map.
“I’ve seen Biasutti,Cavalli Sforza and many others.”
Renato Biasutti was a crony under Mussolini’s fascist regime, thus belonging to the same criteria as Lundman, Günther and Lundborg, and having about as much credibility as a Zimbabwean Health Ministry. Cavalli Sforza, on the other hand, is a honest and well-respected (although not flawless) scientist, unlike the rest of above named ethnocentic pseudo-scholar trash, but his field isn’t maps like the one discussed here, as he’s a DNA-scientist not an anthropogist. I have never come across one anyway and I have read his books.
“Just take a look at Turkye,then Cornwall and Wales.”
I suggest you and your Polish friend Stasilpetr, learn to correctly interpret maps and their accessories.
You may laugh but it reveal your stupidness!!!
Who is Peter Frost?
I’ve never read anything about him.
Is he another full time hobby anthropologist as we encounter many in the net??
I’m from Poland,and this map is garbage.
My haunt is from south Poland and i spent two weeks in Turkye last year.
In no way i’ve met so many blue eyed people as in south Poland.
I would say i didn’t meet anyone with blue eyes in Turkye to be real.
What’s wrong with all this internet fakes??
@Stasilpetr
He maybe also a great anthropologist but his work is based on other’s studies maps.
I’ve seen he only explains the high eterogeneity of hair and eyes between europeans using random maps.
Those maps don’t belong to his studies.
For his purpose every map could fit,even Coon,Biasutti or Ghunter’s ones.
He only focus on differences notwithstanding,no matter if Cornwall or South Poland are considered less fair eyed than Turkye.
“What’s wrong with all this internet fakes??”
Oh stop your whining, this is as accurate as they get! The question is what’s wrong with your brain, as you obviously are incapable of understanding a simple map and the information supplied in its columns? Both Southern Poland and parts of Turkey, are estimated to have between 20 and 49% light-colored eyes, which you have interpreted as meaning, that both regions contain the same number of people with the possessed traits, when in fact the numbers only represent average estimates. Parts of Southern Poland could have as high a percentage as 49%, and the same colored parts in Turkey, only 20%.
“Oh stop your whining, this is as accurate as they get”
You should try to activate your two neurons then.
Let’s admit south Poland is 49% on the whole and Turkye 20% or more blue eyed.
The problem is not the 20 or 49.
The problem is that Turkye is nowhere as near to have a 20% or more of blue eyes from the border with Greece until Lebanon.
The only way you can defend this map is to play with the percentages as you are desperatly trying to do.
Anyway, i have written correctly, as i wrote i have never seen anyone with blue or light eyes in Turkye.
So to me it doesn’t fit either the little 20% for Turkye.
Before to judge me, activate your brain and put up a pair of glasses.
compare slaves from south poland(white skin,light eyes,fair hair,a very litlle hair in the body and face,gentle features)
with the muslims from turkey(brunnete skin,dark eyes,dark hair and hard features and many hair in the body and face)is very strange for me,travel to both countryes and you could see the difference.
My mother family was from the Naples area. They were all very tiny with either blue or green eyes, very fair pink & white skin, and either blonde or auburn hair. My father’s family were from Tuscany. They had blue, green and brown eyes. Their hair ranged from very light blonde, to auburn with some people with light brown hair. Most of them were medium height to tall. My brother had green eyes and platinum blond hair. One of my sisters has brown eyes, the other sister has green. Both have auburn hair. Both of my grandmothers had auburn hair. I’m a brown-eyed blonde. My skin is the lightest shade of ivory on the charts. It’s difficult to find makeup as my skin is considered warm and in the lightest tone. In other words, it’s gold based, not blue based.
I’m Greek, my family is from Hpeiros central/west Greece and the Peloponnise. The idea that foreign people have about Greek appearance is very far from the truth. A lot of people in Greece do not even have olive complexion, they have skin much lighter than that. Most people have brown hair, not dark. My whole family has green/blue eyes, white complexion and fair hair. I have lots of friends who also have blue eyes or blonde hair (natural) and pale complexion. Both my grandparents on my mother’s side had blue eyes and white -not olive- complexion. Lots of people in Greece have hazel eyes, not just brown or black. In fact, it is rare to see a Greek person with black eyes, and most people have brown hair, again not black, not even dark brown. I have green eyes and light brown hair. People think Greeks look like Turks, but I have met Turks in England and they are much darker. Moreover, the facial characteristics and structure are very different. I live in England, and many people ask me whether I’m German or Dutch, some people think I’m British, some correctly guess that I’m Greek not because of my colors but because of my facial bone structure. I have met lots of Italian people with blue and green eyes, Spanish with blue eyes, fair hair and complexion. However, a lot of english people have black or brown hair and brown eyes, not all of them are blue-eyed and blonde. This whole issue is very complex, and I didn’t write this to make conclusions about the map. Also, the Cavalli-Sforza studies are valid and when studies like that are mentioned the lab and the country should also be taken into account, they too have to be valid and respectable. For example, I wouldn’t trust studies which come from a private-funded lab, in a small country, by not well-known scientists, with no quality control or assurance ,without formal scientific protocols and regulations to bind them.
i dont think people thinks greeks look like turks
People do certainly look different. I ‘m not sure about the accuracy of the map though.
Furthermore, for some… there are not three races. There is only one race, scientifically & genetically. However we do look different and anthropologists use “race” as a classification to allow for simpler identification.
Does somebody know where can I find Ginger-hair map?
It’s so obvious that this map has caused a lot of stress. People, no matter where you live, you know best how people in your country look like, no need to persuade other people it is the trueth. The map is probably old. Example is my country where light eyed people are somehow devided to 3 regions, while during last 20 years all people have been moving from west Poland to north and etc. I can easily say, that percentage of light eyed ones in the whole country is here everywhere equal, I guess about 70 %, no matter what region and it is similar in sorrunding countries. Remaining 30% are brown and hazel, so I feel unique with yellowish hazel ones:) Besides, it all does not matter, cause in 200 years we’ll all have brown eyes, don’t you think?
“Renato Biasutti was a crony under Mussolini’s fascist regime, thus belonging to the same criteria as Lundman, Günther and Lundborg, and having about as much credibility as a Zimbabwean Health Ministry”.
Do your homeworks Boba.
Biasutti started to study anthropology long before Mussolini’s regime and you can be sure that Mussolini didn’t care at all about the nordic features among italians.
Anyway this stupid Mussolini’s behaviour started when he made an ally with that idiot of Hitler.
Mussolini’s idol was Julius Caesar of course, who was tall for his time, very fair skinnned but dark haired and eyed.
Livi’s maps predate also Mussolini’s era cause they were made studying young italian soldiers in the WW1.
About this two maps(Livi and Biasutti), any, shown less than 20% of fair eyes among italians, with regional percentages in North and central Italy and around Benevento and Apulia that reached 50%.
If you don’t like Biasutti and Livi there is always Coon.
Anyway it would be nice to post some maps of fair hair.
Strikingly many maps show a percentages of blonde hair in Italy higher than Spain or Portugal let alone Turkye.
This clash with this map since usually-even if not always-blonde hair go along with fair eyes.
to jelena,i dont know where ginger map is but the two countryes with more ginger hair are ireland with 13 per cent people and scottland with between 10-12 per cent people.this show the relation celtic ancestors and red hair.
Italians and Greeks, stop with this thing “my whole family is light/eyed” because is well known that fair eyes are unique in there.
Typical italians look like Vitantonio Liuzzi, Luciano Pavarotti, Giancarlo Fisichella, Silvio Berlusconi or Monalisa from Da Vinci which is light skin, dark hair and brown eyes. Blonde blue-eyed are minority in every region in Italy even in Veneto, Toscana, Lombardia.
Typical Greeks are like Maria Kallas, Karagounis, Gekas(the last ones from greek football team) and so on.
Of course there is people like Danielle de Rossi, Montolivo and etc that look like Nordic European but they are not original italians, they are mixtured with genes of nordic tribes that invaded Italy. Lighter greeks are also not original greeks.
Etruscans were most probably Turanids and south Italy heavily mixed with Arabs as well as Greeks (both good oversea traders). Arabs by the way being “long headed” (Well some Nazi science maybe but some truth in it) are closer to europeans than Turks. Europeans are oval headed, Turks are spherical (called brakisephal if I am not mistaken in spelling). In fact arabs and jews in one extreme, chinese on the other extreme, Europeans and Turanids are in the middle. Etrusk – Turkish cultural connection is also very probable.
there is no way black people have the same percentage of blue eyes as italy does! What the heck? Italians arn’t black.
The vandals, a germanic tribe, entered in Spain and then they were expelled from Spain by the Visigoths, another eastern germanic tribe. The vandals then had to move to northern africa. That’s the reason why the % of people with blue eyes in northern Morocco is higher than you would expect.
I’ve recently noticed that a lot of moroccas than come from this area could totally be considered spaniards……. they don’t have moorish faces or skin at all.
Oh and by the way “Arthur” the only italians that I will agree have olive skin and brown eyes are sicilians because black people raped them years and years ago, hence the geological traits have assimilated into sicilians and southern italians seeing that northern africa and sicily are so close to one another. As far as I am concerned italians seem to be the butt of every ones jokes these days and it is getting really sickening just to throw that out there also.
that’s so stupid. you are just repeating the so inaccurate pseudo-fact from the movie True Romance about blacks fucking the sicilians women. that never happened in reality.blacks were never in sicily , perhaps few as slaves in roman time but that’s it,, it’s a fictional satirical story written by Taranatino. pff what a moron!!
ı am Turkish and ı have green-blue eyes with dark blond hair.anyways Turks from black sea region and thrace part is very fair and colored eyes is commen there.and also many Turks have a descantand from balkans or caucasia region(south russia) ı think this map is quite correct except moldova and partly romania(they have a good percent colored eyes) also green eyes is most common in my country here
http://www.docshop.com/2008/01/04/what-color-will-my-babys-eyes-be/
it says
‘You probably knew that brown is the most common eye color worldwide, but did you know that green is by far the rarest? In fact, less than 2 percent of the global population possesses green eyes. As a country, Turkey has the highest percentage of citizens who have green eyes, at 20 percent. There are a number of countries – generally located in Asia, South America, and the Middle East – where green eyes are almost completely absent among the population’
anyways you can have more colored eyed people here more than other mediternnian countries
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090731144201AAkQub5
of f course we have kurds here who are an iranic arabic group.they are about 20 million here only 3.5 million of them live in istanbul(12 million population) they are darker in general and they miggrate big cities and they rope harrart etc. many of them live in germany also.they are like our gypsies here(like gypsies in moldova romania etc..)
This map is true for Turkey. Also Turkishes have blue or green eyes more than Italians, Greeks and Spanishes.
Blue eye genes are common across Europe, including the south. That’s why its very common to come across Greeks with blue eyes. The mutation for blue eyes originated somewhere around the Black Sea and then spread from there, mainly north-west and north but also east and south. In Spain and Portugal they are less common, and probably about one quarter of the population of Spain. If you head north in Spain they become more and more common, and if you go south they become less and less common but they’re still not unusual in southern Spaniards. In the northwest of Spain they are around half the population. But the colour of Spaniards has only a little to do with the Moors and mainly in the south. It has a lot to do with living in a sunny place for many, many thousands of years.
Never read so much crap in my life. People jumping to conclusions because of the colour of somebody’s eyes or the lightness of skin. I’ve seen south americans who are of Indian and Spanish ancestry who have blue eyes.
The genetic tests over and over prove that Iberia (Spain and Portugal) and Italy are populated by people who are thoroughly west european. See Genetic History of Europe in Eikipedia, it has many, many links to professional genetic studies. The other point is that southern europeans are, on average a bit darker, though there are many exceptions, than northern europeans. Too things to be said about this observation: 1) that is what you’d expect of people who have been living in a sunny climate for thousands of years and 2) southern europeans skin colour changes more radically according to climatic conditions than anywehere else.
As for the myth about the Moors in Spain: They were always a minority, and they only controlled Granada, a small area in the south for 800 years. They controlled the south of Spain for 500 and some parts of the centre and north from between 20 years to 300 years. And most Muslims in Spain in Moorish times were natives who had converted from Christianity to Islam because they were sick and tired of being treated as second class citizens by the Moorish rulers. There descendants converted back to Christianity later, or left.
Adios
It is a very interesting map. But I am skeptical about how how much research was done to back this up. Where is the data behind it? Did someone actually finance a study that took a random sample of people from every province of every country in Europe and the surrounding area? Or is the map simply based on assumptions and stereotypes?
Ok people, can I say something? I am from Northern Italy (Lombardy) and extremely pale, blue-eyed and with dark blond hair. All my family is like me or even lighter in colouring. Whenever I travel abroad and say I am Italian, people do not believe me: they usually assume I am Russian, Swiss or Polish. By the way, Tuscany is not considered to be in Northern Italy, but rather in Central Italy. I am in no way a racist and do not think being fair skinned makes me better, but I just have to laugh when I read posts about all Italians being dark and hairy: that is such a cliché! I’d say about 30% of the people living in Lombardy have fair colouring: blue eyes and light skin are extremely common, blond hair a little less so.
Turks have the highest green eyes ratio on earth
turks have the highest german-turks players ratio on real madrid
i am brasilian living in london, in north of enlgnad a lot of people are leght eyes, most of them. is realy weired. but close to paradise , since those prety girls are every where.
i used to live in sao paulo, aboult 15% are light eyes there i think. in london now is more and more dificult to find light eyes because the new imigration policis and misecigenation program are making most people born here mixed . but still more light eyes than in sao paulo. some parts of brazil is very rare to see some one with green or blue eyes.
i think there in brasil is easier to find gree than blue.
i went oportugal once and there most people look mediterranian. , but is all mixed kind of, nordic also and blacks. too many blacks are invading Europe.
Everyone here seems very concerned about how white they are hahah. YES, blondes, blue eyes are the best looking people on planet, I think we all agree to that.
Blondes are very rare in the world, only Scandinavia, Russia, Germany, and Poland really have large numbers of blondes/fair eye colors. Compare that to other 160+ nations out there who are exclusively dark haired, eyed, most of those other countries that have some blondes are simply people from above mentioned countries that moved in for various reasons.
But people, chill out about your hair color, buy some blonde hair dye and voila – you are blondie hahah
Turks came the same place where Finns came.so they are mostly light eyed etc(ethnic Turks not kurds greeks or balkan albanian bosnian migrants)…actually they got darker cos mixing with armenians,greeks balkan nations(albanians croats bosnians greeks bulgarians etc…)proto Turks were a mix of Finno UGrics(Finns) and mongolian people.proto Turks apperead id Ural mounties and northeast europea.
btw many so called northwest russians(close to finland) are slavicised Finns.they are lighter than rest of the slavs.(for example look ak ukranians they are overwhelmingly brunette)
these nortwest russias Finns sllavisiced about 150 years ago but they have nothing to do slavs.Fuck russia!!! fuck of from Finnic lands you fucking bastards go return ukraine where you belong!!
Eläköön Suomi!!!!
I think Ireland should be in the 80% plus bracket. I think everyone can agree we certainly have the fairest skin in the world though it can be mixed with dark hair. Only 1% of the Irish have brown eyes, the major colour being blue and green and then mixes and hues of both. Oh and there is no way that 30% of northern italy has light complexion and blue eyes!!!
No way? Are you serious? In my class in high school 8 people out of 23 had blue eyes, and that is just an exemple. Believe me, it IS common. As I said, blond hair is less common.
Yes Italian I am serious! Even in Ticino is Swotzerland they don’t have this, its only when you go through the Gothard tunnel you see it!
i agree with you stephen,i visited kilkenny in ireland and i thougt in this city that 99 per cent people have blue or green eyes.i stayed in dublin but in the capital there are many foreigners people.
on the other hand i know many pure germans people with dark eyes,for exemple in regensburg(bayern)near check republic.
people from ireland could be with dark,brown,red or blonde hair.
I was in Germany recently for the first time (I’m Irish) and was conscious of the fact that I was one of very few people with both blue eyes and close to black hair – which is reasonably common in Ireland.
Spanish and British/Irish people are very closely related genetically. That is what the genetic studies say. I am not saying that all Spanish people have blond hair and blue eyes. But, I would say that about 25% to 30% of Spaniard have blond or red hair and that the rest are either brown haired or dark haired. I would say that about 40% of them have blue, green or light eyes. Their body builds and facial feature are the same or very similar to other Europeans Northern and Southern. Most have light skin. Some Southern Europeans have a little darker skin but it is not much darker than Northern Europeans. Italians are about the same in appearance as the Spanish. I don’t think that most people think that the Greeks and the turks look the same. Greeks, Spaniard, Italians and Portugese all belong to the White Eurpean Race. The frequency of blond/red hair and blue/green eyes is very High in Northern Europe but not all of them are such.
Turks came rom Ural mounties from north generally south europeans are dark as ıt must be cos they are very close to africa
Turks have mixed with dark middle eastern people and dark Asiatic people. No one believes that turks are whiter than Southern Europeans. Turkey is also very close to Africa and is in the middle east!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people
they came from Ural mounties and etchnic Turks have this finno ugric feotures like elif şafak 1/3 of their population is kurds who are iranic people so they look like the way middleeasteens look like
and you know the lighest people on earth(Finns) came from Ural mounties too
they came from Ural mounties and etchnic Turks have this finno ugric feotures like elif şafak 1/3 of their population is kurds who are iranic people so they look like the way middleeasteens look like
I have seen turks and I have seen finns. And, the typical turk does not look like the typical finn. I have seen Italians, French, Spanish and Greeks and they look like other Europeans. The frequency of blond/red hair or blue/green eyes may not be as high as northern Europeans but they are white; Blond/red hair and blue/green eyes are not uncommon in Southern European countries. Blond/red hair, and blue/green eyes are found all over Europe. The highest frequency is in North Europe. Most Turks on the other hand are not white and most turks are not mistaken for Europeans. If some one from Spain, France, or Italy went to Germany, England, Ireland, Poland you would have a hard time picking them out of the croud of people. You would not have a hard time picking out most turks. There may be some that are white but it is not the majority.
Bullshit. I could pick out a Spaniard, Italian, Greek or a Portuguese person out from a crowd of mixed Europeans anyday. The French would be a little more difficult.
Exactly. Even the ones who look fairer still have facial features that are Roman or even Arab, far more than Northern Europeans. In my experience, while the Spaniards and Italians – at least in their northern regions – have important Nordic strands, this isn’t really the case with the Portuguese (even in Porto, which is right in the North, most of the blonds are foreigners). In fact, looking at the photos of their respective football teams, a lot of the Italians and a few of the Spaniards (Torres, Pique, Casillas) are blond, whereas there isn’t one whatsoever in the Portuguese team! By the way, many Southern Europeans DO look Arab and/or Turkish, and in some cases even Indian! For example, look at these politicians http://www1.cm-funchal.pt/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=180&Itemid=242 http://www.parlamentodeandalucia.es/webdinamica/portal-web-parlamento/composicionyfuncionamiento/diputadosysenadores.do?codorg=203&cirele=0&accion=Ver+Diputados http://www.ars.sicilia.it/deputati/default.jsp
you people have to realize “Why” light skin & eyes need to exist.
People with these traits (in Europe anyway) come from cold climates! The scientific reason for this is simple : Less melanin (pigment) allows the individual to absorb more sunlight
thereby making a greater amount of Vitamin D in their bodies.
In the south of Europe there is ample sun so much so that the extra pigment protects the native people from skin cancer.
You may question this with regard to Eskimos but I believe they are related to Asians who crossed a land bridge in alaska along with others who migrated to North America & became the “native” inhabitants in the New World lands. So nature designed all of us in a special way for the area we evolved in. It comes down to a matter of pigment but for a reason.
As far as the map, keep in mind it says “light eyes” there are brown eyes that are quite light, perhaps that is what is throwing off the map’s significance.
Did you know that Southern Europe is at the same latitude as the Northern third of the United States and the Southern fifth of Canada. That is very far north. Also, Many Southern European Countries such as Spain, Italy, Portugal, and France have been settle by many people from Norhern Europe such as Germans, Celts,and even Scandinavians. Those people brought in blond/red hair and blue/green eyes. I as well as many of these people are not saying that all or even that the majority of these South Europeans are fair haired and light eyed. We are just saying that the fair coloring is not uncommon in these countries and that the fair coloring makes up a large minority of the population about 25% to 30%.
Also, if you look at people from these countries in Southern Europe the people do not have dark skin. They are fair in skin coloring but they are able to tan. Also, there are many Southern Europeans that are fair skinned that do not tan. It is like the blonds in the United States. They may be very fair in skin coloring during the winter months but once summer comes thay tan very well. But, I do not ever hear people say that these blond people to be dark in skin coloring.
The color your skin is without tanning is your genetic skin color.
Tanning is “protection”. The skin darkens to protect it self from
ultaviolet damage of the suns rays.
It is pointless to mention blondes in the US, every natural blond,
blue eyed, light skinned US person is descendant from Europeans.
There are NO indigenous blue eyed, fair skinnned, blond haired
people in the entire North & South American continents.
As in my previous post, Mother nature caused blue eyed, fair skinned, blonde people to exist because there was such a lack of
sunlight (long winters, short days from October until May) that
unless these people had very little pigment their bodies would not be able to make Vitamin D. If you do not have Vitamin D you will die. It is necessary for adequate bone growth & tooth development. Vitamin D helps regulate transport of minerals in the intestines to keep the heart & muscles running properly.
It is needed to run the immune system & protects against some cancers. It is just a fact of life, to exist in northern & eastern & north western europe a person needed to be devoid of much pigment. Look at the Lapplanders (a people indigenous to the Arctic circle) I am sure they are the blondest, bluest eyed
people in the world!
@Sean Peguero
Excuse me but what’s your problem with Turkey and Turkishes? Accept that they had half part of Europe for centuries. They certainly mixed with Europeans at centuries. Yes, roots of real Turks were from Asia. But their population was less than Greeks and other Balkan nations. They just directed European public. Yes, administrators were Asians but public was European. And now public of Turkey is grandchildrens of that European public. Now if you look the genetic researches, the Turkishes are considered white Europeans, not yellow Asians. Also do you know that Turkey has the highest percentage of green eyes in the world? =)
I never said that the Turks looked like East Asians, Yes, they have mixed with Europeans and some do look white. But, most do not look European. Most of them look more like Iranians or North Middle Easterners.
My family is Puerto Rican and Cuban of northern Spanish and southern French descent, and my grandparents all have light eyes and my dad is blonde , its the southern European ancestry , im not German or Swedish . I hate it when people stereotype everything,Im not short, and im not dark, not all the spaniards look like Antonio Banderas, and Penelope Cruz.
The blue eye map of Europe but ,where`s Puerto Rico?.
Turks are much whiter than south europeans and also central europeans(austrians,slovenes etc..) cos they are north euroasians ethnic Turks like Tatars sometimes resemble Finns of north europea.googe Marat Safin and also his sister Dinara Safin. Kıvanc Tatlıtug etc….and also they have highest percent of green eyes ratio on earth
south euros conquered by moors who came from africaetc…
you are right archangel turks are the most white people in the world.for example altintop,ozil,corban,serdar,all are in real madrid fc,white T-shirt.
on the other hand casillas ,ramos,pique, pujol iniesta etc are clearly moors.
Casillas is clearly moor?? What did you smoke?
ironie bertuccio,you know?
Altintop brothers are ethnic kurds not Turks from north Euroasia.However Nuri Sahin is a good example of a brunet Turkic north Euroasian typle with his dark hair and blue eyes.he is kinda dark though but still has north Euroasian features.but you south euros are kinda resemble moors ı am an ethnic Turk from north Euroasia(our original homeland) and ı have a finno ugric(finnic) look on me like all ethnic Turks
bertuccio, you know the mean about the word “ironie”?
Dumb dumb I am not saying that all Turks are dark, but the frequency of dark people and non European featured people in Turkey is much higher than Spain, France, Italy, Portugal, and Greece. Most Turks do note look European. They may have originally looked European centuries ago but they have mixed with non Europeans over the many centuries. Spanish, French, Italians, Portugese, and Greek are and look like other Europeans.
Unfortunately, this is the truth. The place of not color white is already sinked. I know I’m crazy.
Blue eyes occur in low frequency in Japan, sporadically amoung the Amerindians, it is common of course in India & Pakistan. The map just shows where blues eyes are most common. Don’t read too much into it.
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I’m an Italian and I know that Italy’s percentage of light eyes isn’t 1-19%. Also Spain and Portugal have higher percentage than us? This map is a fail. Italians are similar to Greeks and Turkishes and our percentage is like them too. And I know that Turkishes are looking more European than Spanishes and Portugueses. Turkishes are whiter than them because Spanishes and Portugueses are looking like child of an european and an African. ps: Turkey has the highest percentage of green eyes in the world.
Spanishes and Portugueses are looking like child of an european and an African
1. That’s a racist comment because you’re using the term African as an insult
2. Northern Morocco was partly populated by Vandals, of Germanic origin
3. There are large areas of Spain and Portugal that have never been populated by islamics, and I’m not talking about the far north. Areas like Segovia or Northern Extremadura, that are central Spain, were never populated by moors.
4. Southern Italy was populated by moors, so basically I could compare northern Spain with southern Italy and say that Italians look like northern africans and spaniards are way more “European” than italians
Spain, Italy, and Portugal have had similar people that have settle their lands. Iberians, Romans, Celts, Germanic tribes, Greeks, Basque, Scandinavians, other West Europeans and small amounts of Jews and North Africans (mainly Berbers who in many instance look white). Only and Idiot would say that Spaniards look like they are half European and Half African. No one who is educated or who has been to Spain would ever claim that.
I mean spain have coasts next of africa and if we look history we can see that spain had lands in africa too many times and africans toke spain lands too many times too. and they mixed naturally. why dont you have a complex about being darker and why dont you accept that you are more more darker than other europeans. i’m not racist and our all is human and color isn’t important. but this things are truths. finally be civil and don’t use bad language.
The genetic studies as well as history does not support your claims. History states the majority of Jews and North Africans were expelled from Spain. The majority of the people who were Muslem living in Spain were converted White Europeans. There were not many Arabs or Africans who emigrated to Spain originally. Genetic studies state that about 95% of Spains genetic make up is of West European DNA. If you look at Spaniards they do not look North African. Make sure that what you are claiming is true, not just what you think you see.
The level of ignorance displayed by some posters on this thread is frightening.
Iberians (Spaniards and Portuguese) according to the latest autosomal DNA (governs characteristics of phenotype) research reveals that they are overwhelmingly Western European. Actually the Eurogenes, Dodecad and Dr. McDonald projects, among others, show NORTHERN European average scores of between 55 and 59% for Spain and 55 – 57% for Portugal. For the most part, Iberians are Atlantids rather than Mediterranean.
@ Stella
I guess you are not up to date on the latest human population genetic findings. It seems that the Straights of Gibraltar, because of strong and unpredictable currents, acted as a major deterrent to gene flow from North Africa. N. African influences in Iberia average ~ 3%, far less than what is found in the Eastern Mediterranean region of Europe and in line with many Western European ethnicities.
Do some research and get educated. Your post is absurdly childish and just plain wrong. Back to the drawing board.
i dont understand nothing.i never been in turk but i see turkish footballers in national team and to me spanish team are more european people than turk. compare casillas,ramos,pujol,pique,xavi alonso,xavi,iniesta,villa,torres,navas,llorente…….now altintop,ozil and rest of players turk team.
stella:you are blind?
@luk
look at this turkish footballers too:
sabri sarioglu, semih kaya or serdar kulbilge
or did you look at the turkish national basketball team? some:
sinan guler, oguz savas, omer asik and semih erden
or the most famous actor of turkey: kivanc tatlitug
you wrote here darkest ones. i’m not blind or i am not advocating turkey but these are the facts that according to researchs, they have a very high rate of european gene. europeans dont want to accept that cause of turkishes are muslims and that’s so regular. people tries to show them middle-eastern. just search somethings…
@luk
look at this man: ATATURK (founder of the Republic of Turkey)
look at this turkish footballers too:
sabri sarioglu, semih kaya or serdar kulbilge
or did you look at the turkish national basketball team? some:
sinan guler, oguz savas, omer asik and semih erden
or the most famous actor of turkey: kivanc tatlitug
you wrote here darkest ones. i’m not blind or i am not advocating turkey but these are the facts that according to researchs, they have a very high rate of european gene. europeans dont want to accept that cause of turkishes are muslims and that’s so regular. people tries to show them middle-eastern. just search somethings…
sincerely,i never been in turkey.i dont know turk basket players.i saw many football players along that last years in europeans leagues and national football team.i know one woman from turkey with nordic features too.
you know very well turkey in order what you say.are you turkey or italian?.
anyway i think you know well turkey and turks but i think you never been in spain and you dont know many about spaniards.your post comparing spain with italy are completely wrong.
Stella.
I saw all the guys you named.i didnt know the turks are blonde,light eyes and white skin.please tell me the names of some blonde turk actress.
i will travel turkey in the future to see beautiful blondes women.
There are white Turks, but the majority of them are not white . Maybe 35% of the Turkish population look like Europeans but the remaining 65% do not. Spanish on the other hand look like other Europeans. The genetics studies show that about 96% of their genes are of west European backgrounds: English, French, Irish, German, Italian, Dutch, Scottish, Belgian, Welsh, and Danes. I don’t know how much of Turkey’s genetics is from European people, but it would be far less than Spain’s, Portugal’s or Italy’s. Many of the White Turks probably came from East Europeans that were enslaved by the Turks hundreds of years ago.
Well, if you are going into random subjective estimates, I can say that around 45% of Spaniards and 15% or Portuguese people look ‘White European’. For Italians, barrring the Southern isles (Sicily et al), the figure might be around 50%. Strangely enough, from what I have seen of Turks, around 55% of them look ‘White European’.
Please do not let your own heritage prejudice you against making an objective evaluation of reality, my friend.
I’m not doing what you have suggested. What I am saying is just facts. What you are saying is what you wish to be! I have seen many Spanish, and Italians and they look white. There are some, maybe about 10%, that look half Middle Eastern and half White, but most all of them look like other Europeans. I have seen many Turks and most look more like other Middle Easterners.
i didn’t say that spanish people isn’t european. of course they are european too. i just said that they’re more darker than other europeans and they don’t look like other europeans. realistically, italy, greece and turkey, all on the same case. because this countries are southern and mediterranean.
@sean yes, you are right about spain and italy have more european gene than turkey. italy and spain: 93% and turkey 73%. i said spain does not look european according to italy and turkey because italy have mediterranean, alpine and nordic genes as equal, turkey have high rate of alpine gene and low rate of mediterranean gene but spain have high rate of mediterranean gene and low rate of nordic and alpine gene. that’s cause of spanishes are looking darker and less european than others. but that doesn’t mean they aren’t european. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_4.jpg)
@luk i’m italian but i have turkish roots too =)
So I guess that the fact that the Visigoths, original from Southern Sweden, entered Spain and around 20% spaniards trace back their ancestry to them doesn’t really matter, right? Those are the non-mediterranean genes in Spain, dude… and it’s what justifies the map.
Besides the fact that the whole north and northwest Spain has the same genetic ancestry than Black Irish, so I don’t really know if they can be considered mediterranean. Plus, this area was barely romanized and was never invaded by the moors
this study coincide/agree with i saw.
could you named some people from asturias/galicia like this people:
catalonia.pique,gasol brothers,pujol,alguersuari….
andalucia.the morancos
east spain:tenis players ferrero,ferrer etc
and when i was living in algeciras(the south-south spain)i saw more tall and blue eyes people than in asturias-galicia
generally astur-galicians are a short piece of meat with legs like fernando alonso.villa,cazorla….
First of all, the Morancos are from Seville, which is a city a certain level of ducth ancestry because it was the center of trade with the Americas and the dutch merchants had almost the monopole there, so I’d be really careful trying to apply Seville genetic composition to the rest of Andalucía.
As far as I know the Gasol brothers do not have light eyes, which is the thing we’re talking about here.
i forgot the thirth asturian man of national team :
villa,cazorla and……JUAN MATA
Just a myth. Consider the ‘Saxon invasion’ of England. This is an event far more credibly verified than the so called ‘Gothic invasion’ of Iberia. Strange how you discredit 800 years of Moorish rule as having little genetic effect on the population while at the same time claim 20% genetic contribution from a passing phase of an insignificant male Gothic ruling class. Ironical.
Easy
The 800 moorish rule were not in all Spain
– Northern Spain was never part of muslim Spain… in fact all the visigoths took refuge there
– From the River Duero to the Central Mountains that area remained No Man’s Land for a couple of centuries since the moors entered in 711.
– By 1150 around 60% of the peninsula was Christian already, and that no man’s land was populated not only with people from the north but also with french people, given that they did not have enough people to establish cities big enough to deffend themselves. For example, Pierre de Agen, french, was the noblemen responsible for the repopulation of Segovia.
– By 1300 the only moorish land in Spain was Granada.
– in 1609 Phillip III decreed the expulsion of the Moriscos, the descendants of the Muslim population that decided not to leave Spain when the Christians took over. We’re talking about 300.000 people that were expelled out of the country. That never happened to the visigoths.
– The Visigoths phase was not unsignificant. The Visigoth Kingdom lasted almost 4 centuries…
ICALLBULLSHIT, has never read history. When the Moor invaded Spain only about 70,000 people came with them, mostly Berbers. Many Berber were blond. The majority of the Muslim people living in Spain were people of European blood that converted to Islam. The genetic studies say that a very small amount of the genetics in Spain comes from out of Europe. It is only about 4%. The Visigothes, Suebies, (Suebies were actually two tribes) and Vandals came to Spain; all of them were Germanic. Spain also has a high amount of Celtic blood. Spain also had German, French and Irish immigrants to their country in the past. The Moors where also expelled. Read your HISTORY!
Nonsense, Oppenheimer’s myths are done! Now we know that R1b sub-clades of the Irish and Basques are totally different. Having a Y-chromosome which is R1b doesn’t mean that they’re so closely related!
stella.
i was working in zaragoza aeroport in spain.Ryanair have two lines.
zaragoza-ROMA and zaragoza-MILANO,more or less three or four flight per week each line.i worked in the machine where passengers let their things.
hundred italians and spaniards pass and speak with me every day and i can tell you that is imposible differentiate both before they speak(the passengers are mix both nationalities) .maybe something italians look like from middle east but are minimun differences.
on the other hand is easy differenciate britan people(from england or ireland)from spaniards or italians.
i worked too in mallorca(thousand and thousand people speak and pass in front me) in the same and i could distinguised britain from german people too.
britanny people are different from rest of north europe and of course from southern europe(i dont know about turkey and not very much about greece).
i travelled to italy,england,ireland,france,germany,osterreich.switzerland,spain portugal,morrocco,czeck republic,kosovo…….
believe me,i know about this issue.
bertuccio
i read many times that england and ireland have the same genetic ancestry than iberians or north iberians but maybe this was 40000 years ago.
nowadays i can distinguised britain people from iberian people at km distance(group people not individualy)
its true that there are differences between region of iberian.i think that more distance frontier france more didifferences.
As far as I know I pointed out northern Spain and Black Irish….. so don’t try to outsmart me here
north and northwest spain was totally romanized.there are a lot of rest edifice,bridges ruins romans everywhere.
there are more genetic traces northafricaas and jews in north and northwest spain than in south and east of spain(from this areas muslims were totally expelled).
Totally romanized? You’ve gotta be kidding… The basque, galician and asturian areas were never romanized. Specially the basque area, reason why they still keep their pre-roman language.
About Galicia and Asturias, this areas were not romanized. There were roman fortresses like the ones in northern England, so the romans could keep an eye on the natives, but they never romanized them. It would not be until the moors entered in Spain (VIII-IX century) when the Visigoths looked for shelter in the north and it was then when the local culture was overwhelmed by the large amount of christians that arrived there.
About what you said about the genetic traces… that is a study made out of studying the genes of 1,000 persons in 14 towns across Spain. If you consider that a serious study….
About that thing that you can distinguish a british from a spaniard at 4km distance… LMFAO…. I guess you can tell the difference from the drunk (british) and the one that is not. I give you that.
Try making a comparison of Iker Casillas or Fernando Torres with regular dark-haired british people. I do not really see any difference from Kate Middleton to any regular spanish girl.
yes,bertuccio.asturias and galicia totally romanised.i was been livinng 5 years in the biggest city of asturias and know perfectly galicia too.
about basque country is possible less romanised but basque country is a small region.
i said that i could distinguis a group of british people with a group of spaniards people,no individually like you say.
Congratulations about your 5 years in Asturias. Just a pity you really learnt so poorly its history.
Btw, romanization means adoption of roman culture, so I don’t know how that could’ve affected the genetic ancestry of their people. England and Wales were romanized, too……. at least by your standards, so I guess you could estate that english and welsh people have more in common with italians than with scottish or irish.
now,relax.you spent two much thinking.i dont know why you want add the roman in england in this issue.
i didnt know abot study traces was in 1000 people in 14 towns across spain,but i think is enough to consider this serious study.
1000 is considered the minimum for any statistical study. So, in order to do comparisons you would need 1,000 samples in each of those 14 towns… otherwise the study is pointless… besides the fact that those 14 towns were chosen without any criteria…. people love to do stupid studies to get money out of them…. there will always be people who will believe those studies…
The one that supports the map, on the other hand, did actually accomplish all scientific criteria..
this study coincide/agree with i saw.
could you named some people from asturias/galicia like this people:
catalonia.pique,gasol brothers,pujol,alguersuari….
andalucia.the morancos
east spain:tenis players ferrero,ferrer etc
and when i was living in algeciras(the south-south spain)i saw more tall and blue eyes people than in asturias-galicia
generally astur-galicians are a short piece of meat with legs like fernando alonso.villa,cazorla….
its funny the word black irish becouse i know pure german people,czeck people,holland people etc with dark eyes but i remember the city of kilkenny in ireland in winter and withouth foreigners.i can assure that 99 or 100 per cent of inhabitants that city have light eyes(blue or green),and skin more white that germanic people or northeuropean people in general,
stella ,could yoy say in what region,city or area have you turkish roots?,and say me a little about lanscape,people etc.i want to visit turkey.
I do not think that the Italians have more Northern European roots than Spain. In fact I have read studies that state that Spain has a slighty higher amount of North European genes than Italy. But, this big idea of very fair Northern European and very dark Southern Europeans is a stereotype. I guess what I am saying is that the frequency of fair skin, eyes and hair is the highest in countries like Sweden, Norway, England, Ireland, Germany, Poland, Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, North Russia, North France, Scotland, Belorus, Austria, etc. But, fairness is not uncommon in South Europe: Spain, Portugal, South France, Italy, Greece, and Balkin States. I would say in general Scandinavians are about 80% fair haired, light eyes, and probably close to 100% fair in skin coloring. North Europeans are about 60% fair haired, light eyed, and 85% fair skinned. South Europeans would be about 25% to 30% fair haired, 35% light eyed, and about 60% fair skinned. I don’t think that the darker skin coloring that is in Europe is extremely darker than the fair skin. A lot of it has to do with the ability to tan the darker one just have the ability to tan while the fair ones have a much lower ability to tan. And, when I say darker, I do not mean as dark as the typical Middle Easterner or North African. And, not all Middle Easterners and North Africans are dark; there are even blond and blue/green eyed ones. The differences between North Europeans and South Europeans are very small they are not a separate race from one another.
The most reasonable and objective answer!
that asshole that spain has more blue eyed in the world is a total idiot,spain is not a nordic country
Don’t be ridiculous… the map estates that northern and northwestern spain has slightly over 20% population with light eyes… nothing to do with the most blue-eyed in the world… you should read more carefully before typing, man
fuck spain, northern italians are blonder than most spaniards,I have met alot of spanairds and italians, for the most part italians are whiter than spaniards, spanairds are assholes, thinking that they are aryans, there mostly subhuman
pffff a portuguese whiner….
Still telling the truth, amigo.
It sound like you have an issue; there is counseling for that if you need it. I never said that Spain was a Nordic country, or do you have trouble reading the English language as well.
The only thing you get by being rude is look stupid….. I was answering to “that asshole that spain has more blue eyed in the world is a total idiot,spain is not a nordic country” that you said…. showing how ridiculous you were being because no one said that Spain had more blue eyed in the world like you implied
Bertuccio are talking to me, Sean, or some other person? I was not commenting on your statement. I was commenting one Joe’s statement.
You need to learn how to write more clearly. It is difficult to understand what you have writen.
joey silveira,mourinho,cristiano ronaldo,pepe.all the same shit portuguese.
wow…………. you’ve gotta be british… such racist comment can only be from a british source…
it`s obvious that i haven`t gotta british,my english lenguague is not good.
anyway,mourihno,cristiano and joey silveira(his english is worst than mine)are shit due the shit that they push from his mouths,not due racism.
the ugly portu-brasileiro pepe is simply a killer,without words.
pff,A PORTUGUESE WHINER,ja ja ja.i agree with you.all portuguese i know are whiners,like you say.
atrasado mental
Cristiano Ronaldo is 25% Cape Verdean.
Pepe is 100% Brazilian
It will be the very first pet of your little child. They come in beautiful and bright colors which are attractive to eyes. TV and other electronic media can get in the way of exploring, playing, and interacting with parents and others, which encourages learning and healthy physical and social development.
And This Is Why Frank Sinatra Has Blue Eyes And Both His Parents Where Purely Italian lol I Myself Am Italian Have Family In Both Sicily And Northern Italy And Believe Me There Are Alot Of Blue Eyed Italians Map Is Wrong
this map show one part of morocco with more blue eyes than parts of italy and spain,jajaja.it’s not serious
too show the most part of romania and bulgary with less blue eye than turkey,jajaja.incredibly wrong,
Whoever made this map is a liar or an idiot.This man was clearly not in Poland, Russia, East Ukraine and Belarus,In Russia, Poland and Belarus percentage of light eyes and hair are the highest in Europe 95%. Such a crap map could make only provocateur or ignoramuses from wikipedia (wikipedia World smithy idiots). I think that in other regions such as lie.
Appearance ethnic Russian people
watch the video and then compare it with this stupid card. I am sure that in other regions, this map false.
I am sure that in other regions, this map false.
thanks legs 199,interesting
all those russian women look like top models.more, i saw a lot of top models less beautiful that the people in this videos.
I have seen many good looking Russians and Ukrainians
I am from Croatia, Split. We have lots of tourist here so I say by my personal opinion there most of Ukrainians and Hungarians are blue (or green) eyed, and I am surprised I meet so many Turks and Greeks with blue eyes (here, we say there are black like gypsies, so it was surprise :-)). Italians have lots of blue eyed people, but I would not say the same for Spanish people, especially for Portugal, they don’t look to me like Europeans, i will say that Portugal, turkey, Albania and Greeks are the “darkest” in Europe.
When you look soccer teams of nations it is the best view, because you have 11 players, and by these map you must have percent of light eyes between them. For example, in Portugal, i think only Ricardo Carvalho had them.
And for that girl above who were writing about Croatians and Bosnians…it is true what you say, in 6th century we came from territory between Ukraine and Poland, what historic people called – “white Croatia”. We are slavs. :-).
Resistance is futile.
you was working in good place to know people but i think not too much spanish people travel to split,but you are right
i think in spain more far to france more dark people and portugal is the furthest territory from france.in addittion there are many brazilians and people from angola since many years.
i saw many slovenians when i was living in serbia and look like similar to people from osterreich.
green eyes and hazel eyes very common in Turkey.But this is not mean blue eye people are less in Turkey
I am not suprised, but most of participants here are fuckin’ racists. I am dark, and I am happy with it. In Spain, many were killed or banished for the sake of pureness (supposedly light skinned and haired, fair-eyed) since the end of XV century. Pureness is the ideological basis of nazism. Don’t forget it. Tribes are gone. Don’t be sick for them. Mixture is the present, and it will more in the future. And i am also very happy for that. Men/women, it’s good for you pairing off with a woman/man from a diferent ethnic origin. Your children will be genetically stronger in most cases, as science has proven, and in the long run, we will all tend to be more alike, as there won’t be so many differences among us.
Hi.
I’ve always been interested in the genetics of Southern Europe. I am hungarian but have been in the balkans and in the northern parts of Italy, even in Tuscany.
It is maybe a bit simple and primitive way to judge, but I use to decide eye color percentage in countries by checking it’s politicians, celebrities.
Anyway, what I experienced during the years that croatians and bosnians are mostly brown eyed, black haired, italians are a bit lighter, but not overall. spanish and portuguese people are as dark or darker than bosnians usually. When I was in France, I rarely saw blue eyed people. I was in Limouin, especially in the Limoges area.
It’s interesting to speak about these things.
Hi,
I’m French and I’m very surprised with your comment about blue-eyed people in France. As, I would say, 45% of Caucasian French people is blue or green-eyed (with a higher proportion of blue, I’m one of them myself) and most of the rest is Hazel-eyed (sometimes mixed with green). As for the hair, the figures cannot be very accurate because 20% of our population which are not Caucasians are taking into account, but I would say 20-25%, the rest is mostly chestnut (light brown hair) and a few dark (especially in the South) and I think I’m very honnest here when I’m saying that.
Hmm, sorry a word is missing : 20-25% of blonds
It is difficult to understand what people are writing on this blog, because their writen English is so poor.
The problem with us Mediterranean is not about having dark colours or not, but considering light hair and eyes as a sign of beauty whatsoever. But by this time we should have learned that people can look good or bad no matter how blond and blue-eyed they are. Our exotism is pathetic.
Well.. seeing that is so important to everybody and they feel SUPERIOR for ”having ”blue eyes” here in australia we have many many BLACK ABORIGINES that for being mixed with the ”white anglo men” these black natives to australia they have blonde hair and BLUE EYES, and none of them are proud or bragged about having those ”blue eyes” To the australian aboriginal their aboriginality is more important than that simplistic discussion about the importance of the eye color.
I love seeing all of the Southern Europeans (like Sean Peguero) on these discussions trying to delude themselves to how many blonde haired-blue eyed people they have!!! Its so incrediably rare, I travelled all over Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal and never saw one person with light eyes that I noticed!
Here in Ireland we have the most ammount of people with green eyes but 75%+ have blue eyes, only 1% of the population has pure brown eyes, mostly people who have brown eyes have bright brown eyes, which is so different than in the south (I should try put up a picture of what I mean!). We also have lots of different types of hair colour, and for some reason there are good few people with jet black hair (blacker than anywhere in Spain/Greece) but super-white skin, then red haired (of course), blonde, brown and all of the shades inbetween!
So since a picture tells a thousand words, here is a picture of my class a few years ago http://www.costelloschoolofirishdancing.com/images/Ballinaclough%20N.S.jpg
Perhaps there is 50%+ with light hair, 95%+ with light eyes. I chalenge anyone from southern Europe to put up a photo of this mystical 25%-30% of blonde people that apparently live there!!! I’ll take bets now that we won’t see it!
“and never saw one person with light eyes that I noticed”… well, you should look better, then…
Me, my daughter, and several people in my family in Segovia have blue eyes. It’s obviously not the most common colour in the country, but incrediably rare not..
I’m just saying what I saw! And I’m into eye colour so it is something that i specifically look for in everyone I speak with so I would have noticed! Just because you and your daughter etc have blue eyes doesn’t make it “not incrediably rare”! I’d say less than 4% of Spanish have blue eyes, when I was in Portugal a lot of people had black eyes which was crazy!
you are exagerate person.in my little village in spain 4 people born in 1965,this 4 people organized party for the village at 19 age.
Well,2 have blue eyes,with brown and blonde hair,1 dark eyes and hair and me with brown-green eyes and little tanned skin.
Other examples for notices you.
Former prime minister Zapatero blue eyes.
players from team champion world cup with blue or green light eyes:
Pujol,Pique,Llorente,Mata,Navas.
light brown-green eyes:
casillas,iniesta,Fernando Alonso.
I know ireland.you are right,i see more average blue eyes and pale skin here than in England or Germany for example.
I think pique is using the coloured contact lenses! Some pics are bright blue and others are dark grey like this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AMq346ZkwsI/TjRqJv0aNGI/AAAAAAAAATY/3bZGkmlVBEQ/s1600/Gerard+Piqu%25C3%25A9+15.jpg
Also everyone keeps giving me examples from their individual villages, a photo is worth a thousand words, just post one to prove it! http://www.costelloschoolofirishdancing.com/images/Ballinaclough%20N.S.jpg
Sure, Stephen…. and is also worldwide known that the real reason they had to bail Ireland out is because their government gives money to their citizens so they can dye their hair red, and therefore pretend to have red head.
We can play the game “I’m always right and when I’m not it’s because the others are falsifying the reality” if you want….. it’s actually funnier
do you want hundred,thousand people?,not individua?l,well this is a maraton in the city i live,in gijon,i run this competition too 31 december 2010.
http://www.elcomerciodigital.com/multimedia/fotos/ultimos/48889-silvestre-gijon-0.html
Actually the highest percentage of green eyed people are 20% in Hungary and Turkey. In Turkey there are only around 10% ish blond haired people. However the blue eyed gene is also around 10-20% and around 50-60% of people have brown hair and brown eyes (inc light brown) so Turkey does have some european genetics and also some mongolian genetics.
You are seriously trying to say that 20% of Turkish people have green eyes? Are you joking! You should come over to Ireland and see for yourself, there is truth behind the stereotype! Hungary is also quite a dark haired place so I’m not believing it for Hungary either.
he isn’t joking! I met a lot of turks and they have widely green or hazel eyes. Also if you think i’m still joking, you can research it at google. just write turkey has the highest percentage of green eyes in the world and you can find
I Looked that up and there doesnt seem to anything official whatsoever just the same post repeated in lots of different forums! I will be in turkey soon so ill have a look but I can’t see it being true!
Malta- I am a Maltese with light brown eyes, having some honey combed patches in the eyes.
My mom has hazel eyes and my dad brown eyes. My sist has medium brown eyes and I have light brown eyes. My body hair is also a mixture of very light blond hair and brown hair-blond and brown haired patches. Also have few freckles on face like the british but on the other hand have white olive skin like the Italians….
My grandparents: grandfather with blue eyes and grandmother with med/light brown eyes-their kids: 1 boy with green eyes, 1 girl with light hazel eyes, 2 med/light brown boy nd girl.
I think that 1.2 in 3 have blue eyes; 1.3 in 3 green eyes; 2 in 3 very light brown; 1 in 3 dark brown.
http://lighthairandeyeseurope.blogspot.com/
Take a look at this blog 😉
I’m Greek with white skin,blue-green eyes and brown hair.My whole family has green eyes.On summer my skin tans very easy without getting red or itching because of the sun…and i love it *_* ❤ why you're so obssesed with pale skin? olive skin is the best!White on winter and tanned on summer 😉
And as regards the eye colours brown + blue are the most common colours on humans.Green,amber,violet(very deep blue,like Elizabeth Taylor's),red and black are the rarest colours!
P.S : MANY friends of mine have light eyes
It’s the Italians who gave spaniards and Portuguese dark features….what is all the nonsenses?
I savor, lead to I found just what I was looking for. You have ended my 4 day lengthy hunt! God Bless you man. Have a nice day. Bye
Northern Italians, Northern greeks and northern greeks and others southern europeans have blue eyes and in a great proportion . Another gross mistake, people make is to consider “Latins Americans” the mixture of Spaniards, indians and africans. Since 1600 to early 1900’s, South America received millons of emigrants from Germany, Italy and also from Ireland, Wales & Scotland in the South Cone of South America. There are millons of people of anglo/germanic/caucasian descend south of Panama Canal.
Ok, I live in Northern Poland. In my family there are Polish and Lithuanians.
From what I’ve seen in Europe. I can say few things.
1) Spain is diverse. Northern Spain has many blond types, but colour of their eyes and hair is different than in central Europe (Poland Germany). So light eyes and light hair look different there. Of course southern and eastern Spain is dark.
2) Nortern Italy is queite fair.
3) Germany is not as fair as people think. There are big differences between southern and northern part, and between west and East.
4) The highest percentage of Blond and fair eyed Europeans live close to the Baltic coast(with the exception of Germany). In Poland for example people who live in Northern part are mostly blue-eyed and blond(with the exception of Western part of coast). In many villages it’s hard to find somebody with brown hair to to mantion the eyes….
Central Poland has more brown eyes – level of Germany I would say.
The same with Baltic states, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia. In Lithuania there are more blond types near the Baltic in general.
Finland Swedne, Norway – – north of Scandinavia is more mongolian than soutrzen and central part, some of them are blond but their eyes are little moglolian.,
So, the thing is that Baltic sea and Baltic countries around the sea coast are really blond and blue-eyed.
But, I have green-gray eyes (two colour), and many people say that they are beautiful so….maybe blue eyes are not the best?
By the way Gypisies have beautiful, deep, dark artistic eyes and faces, I love it.
Poland is never blonder-haired or bluer-eyed than Germany. According to recent studies done in 2010, on more than 8,000 samples of ethnic Europeans(Whites) from all over Europe. Especially adult males aged 18 to 30 years old. The following results were found. Frequencies from highest to lowest for pure blond hair in Finland(58%),Sweden(54%),Norway,Estonia(48%),Denmark,Latvia(43%),Netherlands,Germany
(41%),Lithuania(38%),Belarus(35%),Czech Republic(34%),Austria(33%),
England(30%),Russia(29%),Poland,Ukraine,Slovakia(28%),Switzerland
(26%),Belgium,Scotland(24%),France(18%),Ireland,Wales,Hungary(15%),
Slovenia,Croatia(14%),Bosnia,Herzegovina(10%),Romania(8%), Italy(7%),
Spain(6%),Portugal,Serbia,Bulgaria(5%),Georgia(3%),Greece,Turkey(2%).For pure red hair in Scotland,Wales(11%),Ireland(9%),England(6%),
Norway(5%),Belgium(4%),Sweden,Denmark,Germany,Netherlands,France
,Switzerland(3%), Austria,Finland(2%),Estonia,Latvia,Poland,Czech Repu-
blic,Slovenia,Hungary,Spain,Italy(1%). So Germany is blonder and more
red-haired than Poland. Let’s see for blue eyes now.
Frequencies for pure blue eyes from highest to lowest. Finland,Norway,
Sweden(72%),Denmark,Estonia(69%),Ireland,Latvia(66%),Scotland(63%),
Lithuania(61%),Netherlands(58%),England,Belarus(55%),Germany(53%),
Wales,Poland(50%),Czech Republic,Russia(48%),Slovakia(46%),Belgium
(43%),Austria,Switzerland,Ukraine(37%),France,Slovenia(34%),Hungary
(28%),Croatia(26%),Bosnia,Herzegovina(24%),Romania(20%),Italy(18%),
Serbia,Bulgaria(17%),Spain(15%),Portugal,Georgia(13%),Greece,Turkey
(10%).
So Germany and Poland are similar in blue-eyed frequencies, not much of a difference. Now when combining blond+red+light-brown hair the results
is For Germany(66%) and Poland(46%) and also when combining blue+
gray+green+light hazel the result is for Germany(70%) and Poland(68%).
Thus although Germany is significantly lighter-haired than Poland, it’s quite
similar in light eyes. The parts of Poland which are quite blonde are the
Baltic coastal areas and western parts, areas previously inhabitated by
Prussians! Poles in these areas are the “stereotypical” image of Polish people around the world(fair,with blond/light auburn hair,blue/gray eyes).However most of Poland is far from that. Northern Germans are very similar to the people of Southern Denmark, genetically there’s almost no difference. The rest of Germany is not as light, but still lighter than most of
Central and Western Europe. Another way of comparing was done in
combining the light hair-blue eyes data to find a precise picture of an over-all light/fair pigmentation index. The result for Germany is 59.5 and that for Poland is 48. Nevertheless both nations are still light in comparison to 20 other European countries.
48.
You’re not right Johann as for the inhabitants of the northern and western parts of Poland. Those are mostly Polish people that migrated there from eastern lands (Kresy Wschodnie) transfered to Soviet Union after the WW2 (Poland’s borders changed considerably). Most of ethnic Prussians emigrated to Germany during communism, and those that remained live mostly in Silesia – south-western part of Poland.
I’ve been in Italy and Spain
And i saw more blue eyed italians than spanish! This map is completely wrong
I also live in Finland and almost all finnish people are blue eyed
I think the admin of this website is actually working hard in
favor of his web page, as here every stuff is quality
based material.
Wow, this article is nice, my sister is analyzing such things,
thus I am going to let know her.
I am pretty sure that in this map, immigrants are also included. I live in Sweden and here in Sweden, it is almost unheard of brown eyes in those who are 100% swedish or 100% scandinavians. Personally I know only 2 or 3 people that are 100% swedish and have brown eyes. All other swedes that are 100% swedish I know, have blue eyes or to some extent green.
Regarding the hair colour, Swedish and Finnish are the blondest. Although more common that brown or black hair in Norwegians and Danes, blonde hair is less common in them than in their Swedish and Finnish neighbours.
Also, I know more Germans that have brown eyes than Germans that have blue eyes. I have quite a lot of german classmates at college here in Sweden, and half of them have blue or green eyes, half of them have brown eyes. But from the famous German people I know, there are more people with brown eyes than with blue eyes.
It’s difficult to find experienced people for this topic, but you seem like you know what you’re talking about!
Thanks
Hello batard f***ing f****ts. TURKEY is the worlds most green-eyed country. Of course about 25-30% of turkish population have light eyes (blue,green,hazar)… Many green-eyed people live in the balkans, but most founded in anatolian Turks.
some facts about turks:
We anatolian Turks were known as Roman Turks. Our first kingdom was called Sultanate of Romans. In other words the anatolian people are collected with balkan people. However we are much similar to Roman people like Romanians and Italians. Many Turks are also Caucasian origin. And many people don’t know that Turkic people were Eurasian nomands. There also blue eyed people Turks in China called Uyghur people. There are also 2000 years old blond Mummies founded in the capital of Xinjiang (China) were Uyghur people lives. In other words most Turkic people were always Eurasian nomands. Also the Oghuz Turks who immagrated into Anatolia were Eurasian nomands. We anatolians Turks comes from this populations: Romans, Thracians, Galatian Celts, Greco-Anatolians, Caucasians, Oghuz Turks and Syrian people. The people who are persian origin are Kurds. The problem is that in Iran 20million azerbaijan people live and in Turkey 15million Kurds. So that people think Turkish people and Iranian have same origin. That’s total wrong we have more realtions with arabic states such as Syria, Lebanon and Iraq than with Persian people. But Turks are White and we are Europeans. Greek people have also connection with African people like Somalians (haplogroup E1b1b), but they are still European right? See.
Hey! I’m about to begin my own website and was wondering if you know where the best place to purchase a blog url is? I am not even sure if that’s what
its known as? (I’m new to this) I’m referring to “https://westernparadigm.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/the-blue-eye-map-of-europe/”.
Exactly how do I go about getting one of these for the website I’m creating? Thanks alot 🙂
well my mother is from sevilla in spain and has honey hazel eyes and the rest of her family have blue and my father is italian mixed whet african (great great great grandmother in mother side) and there caramel skin and different greens and gray eyes well me im very light skin blond and i have hazel eyes as some of my dads family theres very light people whet strawbwerry blond hair and colored eyes and caramel skin and colored eyes but no one has brown in either side of my family. What I’m trying to say that not all italians are dark and have black or brown hair or eyes is just a sterio type like in most things.
Desperate & deceitful Italian trolls trying to whitewash themselves and their history and to pull down any Europeans they can with them. Italy is the darkest, least white, and most genetically atypical nation in Europe. They are short, swarthy, hook-nosed and look like Near Easterners.
Roman Italy was a boiling cauldron of African and Near Eastern slaves and immigrants. Instead of expelling these huge numbers of foreigners and slaves, the Romans were actually busy freeing them and making them Roman citizens. Even many of their “Roman” emperors were from those places. Look up the Severan Dynasty, for example. Every single one of them were Syrians, Libyans and Moors. Nowhere else in Europe’s history do we see a similar example of large-scale immigration and integration of Africans and Near Easterners as it happened in Roman Italy.
Much more accurate: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Map_pigmentation_in_Europe.png
R1B and R1A considered the DNA of the white man is over 90% in Ireland and Portugal, 75% in the rest of the UK 70% in Spain, and 60% in Italy, where all related one way or another, but just because you have blues eyes or blonde hair, doesn’t make you whiter, you could still have more african and asian genes under that fair skin lol. True Celts are actually of very Dark skin and Brown eyes, even hitler classified germans into 5 types, Bavarians being labeled as the mediterraneans of Germany, reason the were mostly of celtic origin, but hollywood has stereotyped celts as red headed freckled people…false. And why is everyone trying to be more white then others? we all share 99.9% percent of the same DNA
This should be labeled a light eye map. A lot of those Scandinavians and Eastern Euros are grey eyed
I am from malta and i have black hiar and blue eyes and my girlfriend is ukrianian brown hiar and blue eyes please i want to know if we had sex can have baby blond and blue eyes?
I am reading this website having a lot of fun. There is someone who pretends to be Italian, there is a a Brazilian who pretends to know everithing, people who argue about who’s whiter, and so on. Let me say one thing. I’ve never been to Portugal nor to all Spain, and I’m not in competition with them. I’m a pure northern Italian, I have met Germans, Sweedish, there is NO difference between their complexion and mine, is not true that northern Italians have a complexion darker than to German’s.
The majority of northern Italians have chestnut hair, half of us have brown/hazel eyes, the other half have blue or green eyes. There are many blondes, they are a minority but there are many. If you think that only blonde hair and blue eyes make a person white, it is your problem, I’ve met native pure Germans with dark brown hair and olive skin. Northern Italian’s complexion is so light that they are obsessed with the tan and do much sunlamps in the Winter, in the Summer stay under the sun everywhere, and use fake spray or make-up. So, what you think is a swarty skin, is the result of many UNNATURAL tricks.
Bye bye!
I am spaniard and this map is wrong…. blue eyes are less common than in most of Europe Including Italy.
(Its very sad to read some comments here)
Some weird discussion going on here huh? As a Portuguese who has travelled extensively I tell you this: In south of portugual people have a darker complexion. This might be due to an influence from the moors who ruled the peninsula in the old days, while in a few areas there is also heavy African influence from the slaves brought from Africa. African blood diseases such as Talassemia are also more common among these people. While in the north people have a whiter complexion, partly due to a French influence during the invasions but mostly due the celtic influence in the north of the peninsula. The Azores were also colonized by a small group of dutch people and their influence resulted not only in whiter features but remains in several cultural aspects such as surnames and cultural aspects
blue eyes began in Europe in the area of this map & lighter skin too because people needed to get Vitamin D from the sun, if you are darker it acts like a sunscreen & you do not absorb maximum rays to create Vitamin D in your body. These areas are Scandinavia, the Baltic coast, western Russia, north Poland, North Germany, Finland, Parts of the UK. All the discussion about
*lighter eyes & skin * in other parts of Europe just means that the original blue eyed light skinned people spread out their genes to mix with others in their own country & people in other countries as well, it is a simple explanation. Nobody that was native to the USA had blue eyes or light skin ,
the American Indians were ruddy complexioned & had brown eyes. So all the blue eyes in the USA just means those people are European by ethnic heritage with ancestors from UK, Poland, Russia, Germany, or Scandinavia
no mystery at all !!!